From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#34939: Some minibuffer behaviour is annoying Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 16:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <1879851553195601@myt3-2475c4d2af83.qloud-c.yandex.net> <87a7hasuz4.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87lg0tbjmj.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <877ec5zgeq.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <76a81f37-acf8-1eee-5e9d-0e44b945aaeb@yandex.ru> <877ec4wa7c.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <00a1524b-cce8-70ad-97a8-35e5ef342435@yandex.ru> <049df71d-dd1b-4683-9020-e71eb71c5dad@default> <439cea61-fb63-8214-63ce-a053f0d45bed@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="61840"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: pinkanon pinkanon , 34939@debbugs.gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov , Juri Linkov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 09 02:01:15 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hDeCQ-000Ft8-LT for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Tue, 9 Apr 2019 00:00:03 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2rpkehyst1-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 09 Apr 2019 00:00:03 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x390002s026976; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 00:00:01 GMT In-Reply-To: <439cea61-fb63-8214-63ce-a053f0d45bed@yandex.ru> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4834.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9221 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=18 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1904080172 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9221 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=18 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1904080172 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:157375 Archived-At: > The problem is that it's hard to efficiently interact > with something you cannot see. But you _can_ see it. Before and after the `message', which disappears as soon as you type your next input char or perform some other action. Seeing happens in time, over time. > I'd think that much would be obvious. It's too general and abstract. Too blanket, too black-&-white. Too simplistic, dogmatic. Sometimes in a dialog what's _wanted_ is to interrupt. And there are different ways of interrupting, each of which can be useful, helpful. Sometimes, while a user is inputting content in the minibuffer, she wants to interrupt her own inputting to do something else temporarily. Would you prevent her from doing that too? Sometimes something else going on wants to interrupt her inputting to remind/report/signal/... something. The point is that `message' interrupts temporally, and `minibuffer-message' interrupts spatially. They both interfere with what appears in that little dialog space (minibuffer/echo-area real estate), but they do so in different ways. Those different ways lend themselves to different uses/purposes. They can be put to good use together or separately. "I'd think that much would be obvious." It should be. You're trying to impede the use of an important dialog construct. To return to the OP problem statement - Minibuffer behavior can be annoying or helpful. Programmers have the means to do good or bad. Your removing one of their tools does not improve things - quite the contrary. It's not `message' + minibuffer that's bad. It's a programmer's misguided use of the combination that _can_ be bad. Please leave programming minibuffer interaction to programmers, instead of trying to dictate it from on high. Thx.