From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#68200: 30.0.50; Emacs reloads init file when calling `documentation' Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 18:10:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8734vgjya9.fsf@web.de> <83wmsrzxtk.fsf@gnu.org> <875y056hvj.fsf@web.de> <8334v9simj.fsf@gnu.org> <877ckloxos.fsf@web.de> <83r0iqptu5.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19361"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 68200@debbugs.gnu.org, acm@muc.de To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 11 19:12:33 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rNzXc-0004oi-NI for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 19:12:32 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNzXE-0002Rd-Ja; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:12:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNzXC-0002RI-Tj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:12:06 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNzXA-0002iD-SA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:12:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rNzX7-0005nr-O0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:12:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 18:12:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68200 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 68200-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68200.170499666822221 (code B ref 68200); Thu, 11 Jan 2024 18:12:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 68200) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jan 2024 18:11:08 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33849 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rNzWF-0005mL-Pz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:11:08 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]:22597) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rNzWA-0005lm-Kc for 68200@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:11:06 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 83651 invoked by uid 3782); 11 Jan 2024 19:10:59 +0100 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15a91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.90.145]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 19:10:59 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 29890 invoked by uid 1000); 11 Jan 2024 18:10:58 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83r0iqptu5.fsf@gnu.org> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:277926 Archived-At: Hello, Eli. On Tue, Jan 09, 2024 at 14:36:02 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2024 21:22:16 +0000 > > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , > > Gerd Möllmann , > > 68200@debbugs.gnu.org, acm@muc.de > > From: Alan Mackenzie > > > > In an age when a computer with 1 GB RAM is regarded as small indeed, why > > are we so concerned about the, at most, few hundred bytes occupied by > > each doc string? > Because RAM is always at premium, and because these things add up. > > Even if certain libraries were given adequate doc > > strings, that still wouldn't swell the occupied storage to more than... > > Well, I think there are around 40,000 defuns (etc.) in Emacs (I did scan > > the source files for this at one time). If each doc string were on > > average 1024 bytes, that would come to around 40 MB. That's negligible > > these days, surely. > No, 40MB is far from being negligible. It's not negligible compared with the rest of Emacs, but is less than ¼% of the RAM in a machine with 16GB. > > Eli, what would you say to changing the default of the custom variable > > byte-compile-dynamic-docstrings to nil? > Why would that be useful? to hide bugs in code that doesn't work when > the variable is non-nil? No, the bug has been fixed. But, as Michael pointed out, lots of things are being done with doc strings now which weren't being done when the dynamic doc strings were introduced. Indeed, they were surely a workaround for limited RAM in machines a very long time ago. Now that we're doing more with doc strings, the inconvenience of not getting a doc string after editing a source file might well outweigh the relatively small amount of RAM that these doc strings need. Hence the suggestion to change the default. [ .... ] > Thanks. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).