bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion

bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion

[Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

Package: Emacs
Version: 30.0.50


I wish the SPC binding to `minibuffer-complete-word` would go because it
makes it hard to type SPC in the minibuffer whenever there's completion.

Typing a SPC in a "minibuffer with completion" can be needed when the
things we want to complete contains a SPC character (e.g. file names,
which is why we disable that SPC binding when completing file names),
but also when using completion styles like `orderless` which make the
use of a SPC character to specify how to select the
completion candidates.

So my favorite option is indeed to simply remove this binding.
Those few users who like it and use it (probably long-time users of
Emacs) could easily get it back with:

    (define-key minibuffer-local-completion-map
                " " 'minibuffer-complete-word)

Another option is to change `minibuffer-complete-word` so that instead
of beeping "No match", it inserts a SPC when there's no completion and
`require-match` is nil (after checking that the command was invoked via
SPC).

Yet another option would be to let callers of `completing-read` indicate
that it's likely the users will sometimes want to type a SPC character
for this specific minibuffer input (i.e. `completing-read` would then
use a map like `minibuffer-local-filename-completion-map`).

Currently packages which want to use `completing-read` to let the users
enter a string that will often contain spaces are reduced the either
telling their users "Add this `define-key` thingy in your .emacs because
the defaults suck" or having to use a `minibuffer-with-setup-hook`
workaround that forcefully rebinds SPC during that minibuffer session,
which may be the wrong thing to do if SPC was binding to something else
than `minibuffer-complete-word`.
Both of those options are undesirable, IMO.  We should instead improve
the defaults to make such recommendations and workarounds unnecessary.


        Stefan


 In GNU Emacs 30.0.50 (build 2, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, cairo
 version 1.16.0, Xaw3d scroll bars) of 2023-01-01 built on pastel
Repository revision: a1dce171667209f9dc5b63fd1cf9a067d8ab419a
Repository branch: work
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12011000
System Description: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye)

Configured using:
 'configure -C --enable-checking --enable-check-lisp-object-type --with-modules --with-cairo --with-tiff=ifavailable
 'CFLAGS=-Wall -g3 -Og -Wno-pointer-sign'
 PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/home/monnier/lib/pkgconfig'

Configured features:
CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GPM GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON
LIBSELINUX LIBXML2 MODULES NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND
THREADS TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP X11 XAW3D XDBE XIM XINPUT2
XPM LUCID ZLIB

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: fr_CH.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: InactiveMinibuffer

Minor modes in effect:
  server-mode: t
  electric-pair-mode: t
  global-reveal-mode: t
  reveal-mode: t
  auto-insert-mode: t
  savehist-mode: t
  minibuffer-electric-default-mode: t
  global-compact-docstrings-mode: t
  global-corfu-mode: t
  url-handler-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  global-prettify-symbols-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t

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bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion

[Drew Adams]

> I wish the SPC binding to `minibuffer-complete-word` would go because it
> makes it hard to type SPC in the minibuffer whenever there's completion.

Finally.  Bravo - bonne initiative !

> Typing a SPC in a "minibuffer with completion" can be needed when the
> things we want to complete contains a SPC character (e.g. file names,
> which is why we disable that SPC binding when completing file names),
> but also when using completion styles like `orderless` which make the
> use of a SPC character to specify how to select the
> completion candidates.
> 
> So my favorite option is indeed to simply remove this binding.
> Those few users who like it and use it (probably long-time users of
> Emacs) could easily get it back with:
> 
>     (define-key minibuffer-local-completion-map
>                 " " 'minibuffer-complete-word)
> 
> Another option is to change `minibuffer-complete-word` so that instead
> of beeping "No match", it inserts a SPC when there's no completion and
> `require-match` is nil (after checking that the command was invoked via
> SPC).
> 
> Yet another option would be to let callers of `completing-read` indicate
> that it's likely the users will sometimes want to type a SPC character
> for this specific minibuffer input (i.e. `completing-read` would then
> use a map like `minibuffer-local-filename-completion-map`).
> 
> Currently packages which want to use `completing-read` to let the users
> enter a string that will often contain spaces are reduced the either
> telling their users "Add this `define-key` thingy in your .emacs because
> the defaults suck" or having to use a `minibuffer-with-setup-hook`
> workaround that forcefully rebinds SPC during that minibuffer session,
> which may be the wrong thing to do if SPC was binding to something else
> than `minibuffer-complete-word`.
> Both of those options are undesirable, IMO.  We should instead improve
> the defaults to make such recommendations and workarounds unnecessary.

FWIW, Icicles removes `SPC' for word completion by
default (since 2005, i.e., nearly the beginning).
It puts word completion on a different key
(`M-SPC', by default).

____

 icicle-word-completion-keys is a variable defined in `icicles-opt.el'.

 Its value is ([(meta 32)])

 Documentation:

 Key sequences to use for minibuffer prefix word completion.
 A list of values that each has the same form as a key-sequence
 argument to `define-key'.  It is a list mainly in order to accommodate
 different keyboards.

 Because file names, in particular, can contain spaces, some people
 prefer such a key sequence to be non-printable, such as `M-SPC'.  This
 is the default value in Icicles.

 But because the spacebar is such a convenient key to hit, other people
 prefer to use `SPC' for word completion, and to insert a space some
 other way.  The usual way to do that is via `C-q SPC', but command
 `icicle-insert-a-space' is provided for convenience.  You can bind
 this to `M-SPC', for instance, in `minibuffer-local-completion-map',
 `minibuffer-local-completion-map', and
 `minibuffer-local-must-match-map'.

 You can customize this variable.
____

bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 03/01/2023 21:05, Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the 
Swiss army knife of text editors wrote:
> So my favorite option is indeed to simply remove this binding.
> Those few users who like it and use it (probably long-time users of
> Emacs) could easily get it back with:
> 
>      (define-key minibuffer-local-completion-map
>                  " " 'minibuffer-complete-word)

Yes, please.

bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 00:50:10 +0200
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
> 
> On 03/01/2023 21:05, Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the 
> Swiss army knife of text editors wrote:
> > So my favorite option is indeed to simply remove this binding.
> > Those few users who like it and use it (probably long-time users of
> > Emacs) could easily get it back with:
> > 
> >      (define-key minibuffer-local-completion-map
> >                  " " 'minibuffer-complete-word)
> 
> Yes, please.

My preference is for the more-compatible alternatives.  It is
notoriously non-trivial to figure out minibuffer bindings, so
expecting users to do the above is not very friendly.

bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion

[Kévin Le Gouguec]

Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of
text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> writes:

> Yet another option would be to let callers of `completing-read` indicate
> that it's likely the users will sometimes want to type a SPC character
> for this specific minibuffer input (i.e. `completing-read` would then
> use a map like `minibuffer-local-filename-completion-map`).

Thinking out loud, not sure how reasonable that idea is: something akin
to the *-completion-ignore-case options?  E.g. *-completion-literal-spc?
(Or *-completion-literal-keys)

> Currently packages which want to use `completing-read` to let the users
> enter a string that will often contain spaces are reduced the either
> telling their users "Add this `define-key` thingy in your .emacs because
> the defaults suck" or having to use a `minibuffer-with-setup-hook`
> workaround that forcefully rebinds SPC during that minibuffer session,
> which may be the wrong thing to do if SPC was binding to something else
> than `minibuffer-complete-word`.

With the suggestion above, packages could define their own
*-completion-whatever-its-named option, that may default to letting SPC
self-insert; like ebdb defining its own ebdb-completion-ignore-case that
defaults to t.

Users could then set those options, and possibly set a bare defvar à la
completion-ignore-case for those who feel very strongly that SPC has no
business completing.


(Full disclosure: I find SPC completion somewhat useful, especially for
Lisp symbols, because pounding on SPC is much, much easier than reaching
for hyphens on AZERTY)

bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 04/01/2023 05:29, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> My preference is for the more-compatible alternatives.  It is
> notoriously non-trivial to figure out minibuffer bindings, so
> expecting users to do the above is not very friendly.

It's the same for the users who are bothered by this behavior: I stumble 
over it with certain regularity, but still haven't disabled the SPC 
binding in my init script.

Those those dislike the change, however, will read the necessary 
invocation in NEWS.

bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 14:05:37 +0200
> Cc: 60527@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
> 
> On 04/01/2023 05:29, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > My preference is for the more-compatible alternatives.  It is
> > notoriously non-trivial to figure out minibuffer bindings, so
> > expecting users to do the above is not very friendly.
> 
> It's the same for the users who are bothered by this behavior: I stumble 
> over it with certain regularity, but still haven't disabled the SPC 
> binding in my init script.

I didn't say I'm against any change in this behavior.  Stefan proposed
at least two alternatives that produce basically the same user-facing
behavior when SPC is supposed to be interpreted verbatim, so they come
very close to the alternative that you like better, but still stop
short of breaking someone's muscle memory.

> Those those dislike the change, however, will read the necessary 
> invocation in NEWS.

I think you greatly overestimate the number of people who read NEWS,
even when they have some reason to look up a specific change there.

bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 04/01/2023 16:47, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 14:05:37 +0200
>> Cc: 60527@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca
>> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
>>
>> On 04/01/2023 05:29, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>>> My preference is for the more-compatible alternatives.  It is
>>> notoriously non-trivial to figure out minibuffer bindings, so
>>> expecting users to do the above is not very friendly.
>>
>> It's the same for the users who are bothered by this behavior: I stumble
>> over it with certain regularity, but still haven't disabled the SPC
>> binding in my init script.
> 
> I didn't say I'm against any change in this behavior.  Stefan proposed
> at least two alternatives that produce basically the same user-facing
> behavior when SPC is supposed to be interpreted verbatim, so they come
> very close to the alternative that you like better, but still stop
> short of breaking someone's muscle memory.

The first alternative provides sometimes the same, and sometimes 
different behavior. In particular, when there are valid completions, 
"SPC" would still perform completion -- something that I don't think 
many users expect. Especially novices.

The second alternative is even more involved, requiring 
'completing-read' callers to decide in advance whether the users will 
want to have SPC insert SPC or perform completion. That's still odd and 
seems like crossing the proper abstraction layers. The caller might not 
know the collection contains spaces. And this approach can break 
established muscle memory just the same, as soon as enough callers start 
to make this choice.

bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 19:00:44 +0200
> Cc: 60527@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
> 
> On 04/01/2023 16:47, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > I didn't say I'm against any change in this behavior.  Stefan proposed
> > at least two alternatives that produce basically the same user-facing
> > behavior when SPC is supposed to be interpreted verbatim, so they come
> > very close to the alternative that you like better, but still stop
> > short of breaking someone's muscle memory.
> 
> The first alternative provides sometimes the same, and sometimes 
> different behavior. In particular, when there are valid completions, 
> "SPC" would still perform completion -- something that I don't think 
> many users expect. Especially novices.
> 
> The second alternative is even more involved, requiring 
> 'completing-read' callers to decide in advance whether the users will 
> want to have SPC insert SPC or perform completion. That's still odd and 
> seems like crossing the proper abstraction layers. The caller might not 
> know the collection contains spaces. And this approach can break 
> established muscle memory just the same, as soon as enough callers start 
> to make this choice.

I understand that just rebinding SPC is much easier.  But we are
supposed to consider other factors, not just the ease of
implementation.  And I'm not afraid of code that is somewhat inelegant
and even breaks abstractions, if we provide better, friendlier UI
which breaks less habits.  Many Emacs's abstractions leak from many
holes anyway.

bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 04/01/2023 19:16, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 19:00:44 +0200
>> Cc:60527@debbugs.gnu.org,monnier@iro.umontreal.ca
>> From: Dmitry Gutov<dgutov@yandex.ru>
>>
>> On 04/01/2023 16:47, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>>> I didn't say I'm against any change in this behavior.  Stefan proposed
>>> at least two alternatives that produce basically the same user-facing
>>> behavior when SPC is supposed to be interpreted verbatim, so they come
>>> very close to the alternative that you like better, but still stop
>>> short of breaking someone's muscle memory.
>> The first alternative provides sometimes the same, and sometimes
>> different behavior. In particular, when there are valid completions,
>> "SPC" would still perform completion -- something that I don't think
>> many users expect. Especially novices.
>>
>> The second alternative is even more involved, requiring
>> 'completing-read' callers to decide in advance whether the users will
>> want to have SPC insert SPC or perform completion. That's still odd and
>> seems like crossing the proper abstraction layers. The caller might not
>> know the collection contains spaces. And this approach can break
>> established muscle memory just the same, as soon as enough callers start
>> to make this choice.
> I understand that just rebinding SPC is much easier.  But we are
> supposed to consider other factors, not just the ease of
> implementation.  And I'm not afraid of code that is somewhat inelegant
> and even breaks abstractions, if we provide better, friendlier UI
> which breaks less habits.

Using proper abstractions is what can lead to predictable, better UI. 
And vice versa -- patching through special cases upon special cases 
leads to less predictable, worse UI.

I wasn't talking about the ease of implementation, really.

 > Many Emacs's abstractions leak from many
 > holes anyway.

That's more of a problem for a UI which is used in many, many places and 
in different contexts.

bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion

[Jean Louis]

* Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> [2023-01-03 22:07]:
> I wish the SPC binding to `minibuffer-complete-word` would go because it
> makes it hard to type SPC in the minibuffer whenever there's completion.
> 
> Typing a SPC in a "minibuffer with completion" can be needed when the
> things we want to complete contains a SPC character (e.g. file names,
> which is why we disable that SPC binding when completing file names),
> but also when using completion styles like `orderless` which make the
> use of a SPC character to specify how to select the
> completion candidates.
> 
> So my favorite option is indeed to simply remove this binding.
> Those few users who like it and use it (probably long-time users of
> Emacs) could easily get it back with:

Thanks. It will help in my packages as I have completion which I need
to be editable by user, such as header, footer specification and
inserting space require knowing how to use `C-q SPC', not a big deal,
but it will help in usability.

For completion I use TAB, instead of space. Space goes slow word by
word, but I did not find use for it yet.

--
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion

[Jean Louis]

* Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> [2023-01-03 23:17]:
> FWIW, Icicles removes `SPC' for word completion by
> default (since 2005, i.e., nearly the beginning).
> It puts word completion on a different key
> (`M-SPC', by default).

I would prefer this approach, though I don't find completing by word
useful.

Do you have some example where word by word would be useful?

--
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 19:45:45 +0200
> Cc: 60527@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
> 
> > I understand that just rebinding SPC is much easier.  But we are
> > supposed to consider other factors, not just the ease of
> > implementation.  And I'm not afraid of code that is somewhat inelegant
> > and even breaks abstractions, if we provide better, friendlier UI
> > which breaks less habits.
> 
> Using proper abstractions is what can lead to predictable, better UI. 
> And vice versa -- patching through special cases upon special cases 
> leads to less predictable, worse UI.
> 
> I wasn't talking about the ease of implementation, really.

Not necessarily.

And let's stop here and agree to disagree about this, okay?

bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion

[Jim Porter]

On 1/3/2023 11:05 AM, Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the 
Swiss army knife of text editors wrote:
> I wish the SPC binding to `minibuffer-complete-word` would go because it
> makes it hard to type SPC in the minibuffer whenever there's completion.
[snip]
> So my favorite option is indeed to simply remove this binding.
> Those few users who like it and use it (probably long-time users of
> Emacs) could easily get it back with:
> 
>      (define-key minibuffer-local-completion-map
>                  " " 'minibuffer-complete-word)

This would be my preference too, so long as there were an easy way for 
people who like the old behavior to get it back. (Would it be sufficient 
to just put that snippet in a NEWS entry?)

> Another option is to change `minibuffer-complete-word` so that instead
> of beeping "No match", it inserts a SPC when there's no completion and
> `require-match` is nil (after checking that the command was invoked via
> SPC).

I'm not sure about this one; if it were hard to predict ahead of time 
what SPC will do, then it could be even less usable. For example, if I 
want to insert a literal space, I might press SPC only to find that it 
performs completion. So then I have to undo and press "C-q SPC" to get 
what I want.

> Yet another option would be to let callers of `completing-read` indicate
> that it's likely the users will sometimes want to type a SPC character
> for this specific minibuffer input (i.e. `completing-read` would then
> use a map like `minibuffer-local-filename-completion-map`).

If this would work, it seems like a good compromise. But do the callers 
know for sure how this should be set? If they got it wrong, then it 
might have the effect of annoying both users who like the current 
binding and those who don't. (Similar to the above, there's not much 
worse than a button that *sometimes* does what you want.)

As yet another option, how about doing something like the first one, but 
gate it behind a defcustom? That provides an easy way for users to get 
the behavior they want, without having to deal with figuring out 
minibuffer bindings. (If we had a time machine, the defcustom probably 
wouldn't be necessary, but I think it makes sense to provide an easy 
escape hatch if changing some long-standing feature.)