From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#44983: Truncate long lines of grep output Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2020 18:37:49 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87zh2q61n6.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <3620abd0-ce79-cc9d-3fb2-255e91f13da1@yandex.ru> <87mtyo3x1z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <857088a6-fe90-d989-9115-2c159b2a02e6@yandex.ru> <87lfe6x1uf.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87czzi2ju2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87bley7o4a.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <838sa1eo5u.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26225"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) Cc: Juri Linkov , 44983@debbugs.gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 13 18:40:41 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1koVMO-0006i5-UA for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 18:40:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40494 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1koVMN-0006LJ-SS for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 12:40:39 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56028) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1koVIs-0008Ht-Tt for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 12:37:03 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:38494) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1koVIs-0002mz-HV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 12:37:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1koVIs-0001pl-Ep for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 12:37:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Jean Louis Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2020 17:37:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 44983 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 44983-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B44983.16078810167036 (code B ref 44983); Sun, 13 Dec 2020 17:37:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 44983) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Dec 2020 17:36:56 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50040 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1koVIl-0001pQ-UY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 12:36:56 -0500 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:56161) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1koVIk-0001pA-0c for 44983@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 12:36:54 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.157.34.185]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000000308F7.000000005FD6512F.00004E19; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 10:36:47 -0700 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <838sa1eo5u.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:195983 Archived-At: * Eli Zaretskii [2020-12-13 18:12]: > > From: Juri Linkov > > Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2020 22:42:13 +0200 > > Cc: 44983@debbugs.gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov > > > > > I do not find it problematic. Grep is anyway kind of advanced tool. I > > > think that Emacs "Search for files (grep)" menu option is anyway not > > > user friendly. > > > ... > > > What would be more user friendly would be a form or wizard that would > > > specify if all files are to be searched or recursively, and what would > > > be the search term. That would degrade power of grep but it would be > > > more user friendly to many people. > > > > > > In my opinion I believe that majority of users who ever clicked > > > "Search Files (grep)" gave up after few attempts. > > > > Indeed, "Search for files (grep)" menu option is not user friendly. > > In what way is it not user-friendly? It just invokes "M-x grep". User of Emacs are many, just Debian GNU/Linux reports 16000 users known from the popularity contest package. It is probably small percentage of overall number of users. Recently there was Emacs survey and they interviewed 7000 users. Emacs has many bugs but we do not get enough bugs reported. The ratio is reported bugs does not nearly correspond to number of users. >From our view point it is user friendly. For me is user friendly if we place Emacs functions in the menu without their descriptions. >From view point of many thousands of users it is not user friendly and means nothing. What does Recursive grep means? You have to know command line to know what it means. Majority of GNU/Linux users do not even use command line or terminals. We use it, but we are not representative number of users. "Search files recursively" would be better useful meaning "Recursive grep" is reserved for power users. It is user friendly for subset of users, not for majority of users. Message from my staff member who was using Emacs and went thoroughly through Tutorial: [18:34] Happiness > > I have one analysis question, without expectation: > Would you know how to search files by using Emacs? > Do you know what means "grep"? > Do you know what is "recursive grep"? > No need to look up, just tell me I have learned it but it might need me to repeat again as in the tutorial I was practising, not yet well captured these terms on memory But tutorial is not related to those terms. She cannot know what I mean possibly. She can write reports but would not, without special explanation, understand what means "Recursive grep".