From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#44217: bug#44216: 28.0.50; Incorret during delete in Tramp: Trashing...done Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 13:54:20 +0300 Organization: GNU.Support Message-ID: References: <86mu0ayu2b.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <87eell2q96.fsf@gnus.org> <87imaxuo74.fsf@gmx.de> <87tuuh15zm.fsf@gnus.org> <878sbtuhj6.fsf@gmx.de> <87ft60ru6g.fsf@gnus.org> <87v9evu1jv.fsf@gmx.de> <87r1pjtolo.fsf@gmx.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24554"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/+ (1036f0e) (2020-10-18) Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 44217@debbugs.gnu.org To: Michael Albinus Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 28 11:55:15 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kXj6o-0006GH-Oj for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 11:55:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60764 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kXj6n-0001vS-Qe for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 06:55:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41238) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kXj6c-0001uy-4M for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 06:55:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:35812) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kXj6b-0008Hs-Qq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 06:55:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kXj6b-0005eW-Jl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 06:55:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Jean Louis Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 10:55:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 44217 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 44217-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B44217.160388246821676 (code B ref 44217); Wed, 28 Oct 2020 10:55:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 44217) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Oct 2020 10:54:28 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47358 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kXj63-0005dX-KU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 06:54:27 -0400 Original-Received: from static.rcdrun.com ([95.85.24.50]:54235) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kXj61-0005dO-69 for 44217@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 06:54:27 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.157.0.60]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by static.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002A0B3A.000000005F994DDE.00006069; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 10:54:22 +0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87r1pjtolo.fsf@gmx.de> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:191841 Archived-At: * Michael Albinus [2020-10-27 23:13]: > Jean Louis writes: > > Hi Jean, > > >> The Trash specification > >> > >> says > > > > Not universal for every OSs. Freedesktop specification is exclusively > > for GNU/Linux which accept parts or whole of Freedesktop, yet there > > are those which do not. > > GNU/Linux is the primary target for Emacs. It is perfect to support its spec. Freedesktop.org is not equivalent to GNU/Linux. It is maybe popular but it is not and need not be standard. From: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/ Interoperability specifications freedesktop.org produces specifications for interoperability, but we are not an official standards body. There is no requirement for projects to implement all of these specifications, nor certification. so GNU/Linux distributions may decide to adhere or may not. I hope you that Emacs should NOT be exclusively target for GNU/Linux distributions adopting some of specifications from Freedesktop.org as Emacs is widely used for example on BSD systems. Tramp is supporting various file systems and those file systems are not necessarily on GNU/Linux and thus I do not think it is necessary to include that support for Tramp considering wild range of file systems that can be accessed and those file system yet to come. Tramp should not target Freedesktop.org specification on remote file systems when variable `delete-by-moving-to-trash' is set, this variable should be local only. - If it is not set, I see no message from Tramp related to trashing when file is being deleted. - If it is set, then I see that Tramp is trashing the file, although it is not trashing the file in this context. - my remote system does not have any trash nor Freedesktop.org specification. - And I am using LineageOS/Replicant/Android remote file systems Let us also note that Freedesktop.org is for "desktop" so it is not specification for servers. Tramp accessing remote SSH or other servers should not assume automatically it is accessing remote desktops. Tramp may access remote files by using FTP, rsync, scp, and other protocols, I just hope that trash inclusion is not intertwined in those protocols where remote command execution would not even work. OpenSSH was targeting primarily OpenBSD and we use it wildly in GNU/Linux, it would be somehow unfair to say that Emacs with the Tramp which is using OpenSSH coming from OpenBSD is targeting only GNU/Linux. Emacs is widely used on all *BSD derivates and other OSes not being GNU/Linux. Documentation: Specifies whether to use the system’s trash can. When non-nil, certain file deletion commands use the function ‘move-file-to-trash’ instead of deleting files outright. This includes interactive calls to ‘delete-file’ and ‘delete-directory’ and the Dired deletion commands. I think that variable shall be local only, so that Tramp does not even attempt moving anything to Trash remotely. While that Trash thing would be convenient for me personally, I think it would be badly designed for above reasons. -- Jean Louis