From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 15:15:57 +0200 Message-ID: References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> <7979fef4-5df8-4997-95fd-c5be5887ab44@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="95274"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, tomasn@posteo.net, Jean Louis To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 11 15:17:09 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jY8Iv-000Og3-DF for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Mon, 11 May 2020 13:15:58 +0000 X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87d07a1uk2.fsf@live.com> X-TMN: [eOI0dKdy6eeJThSJkNv5IJJ7xxeO46Of] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-IncomingHeaderCount: 49 X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 569e7a49-1652-435e-6926-08d7f5ad71fe X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AM6EUR05HT136: X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: Nvz9RVuydpYSRKsR1C8ddchAgwMBzEKIGRmUgIf+bnabsFaz0ehCymTypg2WFQpe1Fp51Wajx47k77geE7naArJJcEhvcD5TVFe5YPX6E+Uxbw+p56218FhDVysEbNOuQiOp5RUzvGfJ1ghMUGvjx9NpgvN2k46G/gGJTOrVWdvN7oR24R9wuql9E2E3uTSB9Bf8lcG3BjzzxdvyItnCsQ== X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:0; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:; DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: tHWdeaAzk0SMPWIbiJVbz6K/mpWoOy8HFtWINpcmMn81jmeT45cx761xNruIBe5r+lQ+4hYmScVzt4U1a9aLE/xOKFhoz7uXwxRV91WSHSCeZA8uam63eY019uC+uyg15c3AtY6EsRW4Dh7hiE6DcA== X-OriginatorOrg: live.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 569e7a49-1652-435e-6926-08d7f5ad71fe X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 May 2020 13:15:59.2447 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6EUR05HT136 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:180062 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: >> > If m is for marking then (dired-toggle-marks) should work with >> > success, because why it should not work if the file is flagged with >> > C, because it is not a file for deletion. >> > >> > If is is for marking and d for flaging means to prepare for deletion, >> > then "m" does not flag, it marks, so there are no "other flags" but >> > there is just one mark and other flags. If menu separates marks from >> > flags, then the function should separate marks from flags too, maybe >> > except for flagged files. >> > >> > Confusing, but I don't see a logic why I should not be able to toggle >> > marks on files that have been recently copied or renamed. >>=20 >> Because t toggles marks, and C is not a mark, it's a flag. > > This is not true. Let's please not go there. > > The doc has always spoken of "flagging" only for the > deletion mark, `D', and that mark is also called a > "flag" (_the_ flag). It is the only mark that has > ever been called a "flag". It flags a possible > danger -- "Hey! Over here. Watch out." > > But `D', `C', and any others are all marks. You can > create any marks you like - use any char. > > It's true that, for simplicity, the operation of > "marking" generally refers to marking with `*'. > > Command `* c' (`dired-change-marks') is specifically > about changing marks - substituting one char for > another. > > As for the general question from Jean-Louis, I (and > Michael) already answered it: > > * If you want `t' to UNmark files that have a mark > (e.g. `C') other than `*' then you need to first > change those `C' marks to `*' (`* c C *' does > that for `C' marks). > > * If you want `t' to _mark_ the files marked `C' > then you need to first unmark them. You can do > that in two ways, depending on what you really > want: > > 1. Unmark ALL marks, of any kind. `U' or `M-DEL > RET' does this. > > 2. Change just the `C' marks to ` ' (space char). > `* c C SPC' or `M-DEL SPC' does this. > ("Marking" with a space char =3D unmarking.) > > Why/when would you ever want to use `* c C *' > instead of `U'? When you also had some other marks > (`D', `E' or whatever), which you did _not_ want to > change to `*'. > > And yes, unmarking applies also to `D' marks (aka > flags). Unmarking (unflagging) is not something > dangerous or noteworthy. Flagging (`D') is. > > Dired copy-file commands mark with `C' in the target > directory listing. This is a feature, not a bug. > > And `t' toggles only files marked `*' and unmarked > files. This is also a feature. The most common, > most active, use of marks is with the `*' mark. > > The general "marking" commands use `*', by default. > It is the default mark character, the default value > of `dired-marker-char'. Its doc tells you that is > is "what the do-commands look for, and what the > mark-commands store". > > I think the doc is pretty clear, but yes, it might > require some careful reading. > >> If the doc string which you quoted several times said this: >>=20 >> Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa. >> Flagged files (indicated with flags such as =E2=80=98C=E2=80=99 and = =E2=80=98D=E2=80=99, not >> with =E2=80=98*=E2=80=99) are not affected, and =E2=80=98.=E2=80=99 an= d =E2=80=98..=E2=80=99 are never toggled. >>=20 >> would that prevent the confusion? > > No, that's worse. It introduces `C' as a "flag". > "Flag" and "flagging" need to be reserved for `D'. > > It should always be about "flagging for deletion". > This is important because deletion is consequential. > That's presumably the reason for having always used > a special term for `D' marks. > > "Flag", in the Dired context, is like a red flag -- > a warning, of sorts: "Pay attention! This marking > is particularly important." That's also the reason > we font-lock `D'-marked lines specially (red!). > > It would probably help if the first line of the > doc string explicitly called out `*' marks. > Maybe something like this: > > Toggle `*' marks: unmark marked files, and vice versa. So people are supposed to keep in their mind all this distinction when it is a flag and when it is a mark? So we are supposed to "flag" for deletion, but "mark" for copy. Is it really necessary? Does it really need to be that complicated, I mean, cognitively speaking? Does it really add anything in quality if you distinct between "marking" and "flagging" for deletion? What is wrong to just simply "mark" files with different "flags"?=20 I am not native english speaker, but it feels I could equally "flag" and "mark" my files for deletion.