From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#6572: 24.0.50; error string from `custom-variable-set' Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 15:23:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4995D102D3EE4EEF8E667EAE41D707DD@us.oracle.com> <87o8064uxx.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7155"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "6572@debbugs.gnu.org" <6572@debbugs.gnu.org> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 09 17:27:03 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1no5Hr-0001hI-2m for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 09 May 2022 17:27:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42390 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1no5Hq-00029r-1j for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 09 May 2022 11:27:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39722) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1no5F2-0007cZ-Ay for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 09 May 2022 11:24:08 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:37082) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1no5Ev-0005xI-UY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 09 May 2022 11:24:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1no5Ev-00064y-QE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 09 May 2022 11:24:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 09 May 2022 15:24:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6572 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 6572-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6572.165210979523311 (code B ref 6572); Mon, 09 May 2022 15:24:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 6572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 May 2022 15:23:15 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59212 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1no5EA-00063v-Tl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 May 2022 11:23:15 -0400 Original-Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:30950) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1no5E8-00063n-Pn for 6572@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 May 2022 11:23:14 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (m0246617.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.5/8.17.1.5) with ESMTP id 249EUtYT032663; Mon, 9 May 2022 15:23:11 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2021-07-09; bh=iFlixnL58+xcPLj5DHDa4dlHZYpgyPL8izoSmoUt620=; b=kbom1LHLeEG/cwn15CRuUZvCFd69GpXbvpytSmt74QF4pGruwINfgS2tr2WReKxmEbi+ Q4aoulibIiNsYyYsnW0KkXE3UvSheSSwlYV1e6dBz4TBNyE6VpDblmfwfSSuqWf7VgIz wXDLtQCJUvuZ1o4BV2q9nTY02U2C+lj/li+B02ZH+1r531ALNQUCuDtGNv4LI5TX/3tp j611L9lOIZtla7Lw7SAaUw5gvGBlFZntSzERf5EHzPLCEOnLrknkEmW1sPCtQ0IhoKoy zbbom2vSyWwwA/cpm8dlQbR95qyeK44BaIfP2AS6m8MRGV78EF403xSJCVmj12Eho+9p GQ== Original-Received: from iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (iadpaimrmta01.appoci.oracle.com [130.35.100.223]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3fwhatbwds-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 09 May 2022 15:23:11 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 249FFY1j016369; Mon, 9 May 2022 15:23:09 GMT Original-Received: from nam02-dm3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm3nam07lp2040.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.56.40]) by iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com with ESMTP id 3fwf787y9d-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 09 May 2022 15:23:09 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=a3bv+rhZxwRLeAmawwbcF+tBml4cpTdkb06b4RMI+Cn/hzwIjf4boExOl0WsgAxLF/Ia5qyRhymrgZw/WqauCmGEQ/gYqrmBC/FTotf5rqmAqAkNhHamL7sSRv3yA2udDNQYmeWgTrJS+Rq9y9s6QLyMcdWovzc6fuFfor4oPkBNsid96CEZRAWkko8Pm7Y2qNXJOMIxFMQet/KPe7iQFErEltXKj2khjtt9D40p2uP6awGROu+hSQrSN0SQwpbEnET/1tXhDNBg69CqYhTqpkyybtZ0001lfAPhAuXjX2OxhCVys4wE4VtDPV3+USjkM451yoPk1KB256Rg1H+/YA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=iFlixnL58+xcPLj5DHDa4dlHZYpgyPL8izoSmoUt620=; b=l6Bnpmfp3Dk6vpP5mJ2KTP10GrsfNCfSOkzHUvjQxE5xSgituhuy+zew1kk79FwFvQ8+OcTuhcse/Of35rcz139lyl8oj2dXzoVglVXjKrNq7i/1GKs9dytRgN17xSw7MOMS8leTGTB14Gkz1pH8ElZd2hFUizru584uK5c/3/LCXYQ/hLUMJPfvgEtnAzDlSEZPPy5w+/ERwJRsyJjKF12sUx2Rvlu4s7dGbk16xW2kffvRaQdRmquFQXMexMlwIVQ8odj0CDzsSjZwsneCd1cRest4iViPXEb9uzomTO0asRwxx637duS+QhgqmdZfj9vv7FgRuCqM8i0M/h4V0Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=iFlixnL58+xcPLj5DHDa4dlHZYpgyPL8izoSmoUt620=; b=ntlV3cEmwsLVKpdBi7LdcGWivlFDzCUGmMbqB07I1DWcZZ4wXV7/srgXHrFHWByNWx8TY5ZeJn+YMySEnK+E7kIxOCVdH5HZVRSrXlAPw2YW8gzwLFqFhgxPZFmWCUMvgN/HgA3ffUoZqcn+eq4M/QWZakf0fy+agdjXhEo4qkY= Original-Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by BL0PR10MB2881.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:78::11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5227.22; Mon, 9 May 2022 15:23:08 +0000 Original-Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a0e7:5f38:ab50:5123]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a0e7:5f38:ab50:5123%9]) with mapi id 15.20.5227.023; Mon, 9 May 2022 15:23:08 +0000 Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#6572: 24.0.50; error string from `custom-variable-set' Thread-Index: AQHYY7TWJejotvlFMU2jbXMNwiCtta0Wpomg In-Reply-To: <87o8064uxx.fsf@gnus.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 12b51674-2c44-4e4f-14ad-08da31cfd220 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL0PR10MB2881:EE_ x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230001)(366004)(33656002)(66556008)(76116006)(64756008)(8676002)(66476007)(66446008)(66946007)(8936002)(508600001)(55016003)(83380400001)(186003)(4326008)(26005)(9686003)(86362001)(71200400001)(316002)(6916009)(7696005)(6506007)(52536014)(122000001)(2906002)(44832011)(5660300002)(38070700005)(38100700002)(81973001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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 ge62Z4oCQJNEDxQIHaE8swYTdM0+lPvwRKMlh/0jSwkHlHSrjU7DjIdXyYly3JrPE875uYOjYynYRX0ZNdo2NIBev6dsAeMYNp X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 12b51674-2c44-4e4f-14ad-08da31cfd220 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 May 2022 15:23:07.9343 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Hr/Lw3Gc5K+h8Gh5Z3aveILa0Bgt6BA4a8rfxPqCbrPF7ynapBQi/QRzwRctSN3W7TDLbZGltGpRbpqOTaWgaA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR10MB2881 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.486, 18.0.858 definitions=2022-05-09_04:2022-05-09, 2022-05-09 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=780 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2205090087 X-Proofpoint-GUID: WT9wiu5YOcHx80p-apZDpYA8jMiUzwyg X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: WT9wiu5YOcHx80p-apZDpYA8jMiUzwyg X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:231759 Archived-At: > > This message could & should be more specific, > > referencing the sexp that defines the restriction > > the value should respect. E.g., if :type is: > > > > (restricted-sexp > > :match-alternatives > > (lambda (x) (and (foop x) (not (barp x))))) > > > > Then this message is more helpful: > > > > "Specified value does not satisfy > > `(lambda (x) (and (foop x) (not (barp x))))'" And it's not difficult to provide that help. > Well, I can see the charm of doing something like this,=20 > but the Customize interface is for users, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yes, it is. And that's who we should help, by fixing this as suggested: users. In this case, users who try to provide a value that's required, as specified by that restricted-sexp. > and telling them >=20 > "Specified value does not satisfy > `(lambda (x) (and (foop x) (not (barp x))))'" >=20 > is way too nerdy even for Emacs. Users should look=20 > at the doc string that will explain this to them in words. >=20 > So I'm closing this bug report. It's not about "charm". It's about helping users. Users of Customize include everyone, including users who can understand Lisp. If a user doesn't understand that improved message, s?he's more likely to get help from others by providing that helpful message. A doc string is important. That doesn't mean we can't also have better error messages. Yet another too-bad "I just love closing bugs".