unofficial mirror of bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org 
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: Xiyue Deng <manphiz@gmail.com>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: "67669@debbugs.gnu.org" <67669@debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: bug#67669: 29.1; Drop text suggesting using `and' to replace `if'
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2023 19:37:30 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <SJ0PR10MB5488C49118C35F756EDA2139F38BA@SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87fs0ducme.fsf@debian-hx90.lan>

> I quite like this suggestion[1] that `if' and `when' are used to guard side
> effects,

More clearly, `when' and `unless' (not `if', which is general - no special suggestion) are used to suggest (to humans) that they're used _only_ to perform side effects.  With this convention, code shouldn't depend on their (always `nil') return value.

> whereas `and' and `or' are used for pure functions.

That too isn't really the convention (though it is what's said in that emacs.SE answer).

What should be said is that you use `and' and `or' when _the return value matters_, i.e., when it's used somewhere.

That does _not_ preclude the use of `and' and `or' to perform side effects.  It's simply that the _return value matters_.  Unlike `progn', the (Boolean) return value of each of their "steps" (sexps) determines whether subsequent ones are evaluated.

I've added another answer to the emacs.SE question you cited:

https://emacs.stackexchange.com/a/79744/105

But as you correctly noted, such conventions are a question of personal (or group) coding style.  Lisp doesn't care or recognize any such meaning.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2023-12-07 19:37 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 19+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-12-06 21:47 bug#67669: 29.1; Drop text suggesting using `and' to replace `if' Xiyue Deng
     [not found] ` <handler.67669.B.170189926211616.ack@debbugs.gnu.org>
2023-12-06 22:08   ` Xiyue Deng
2023-12-07  6:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-07  9:08   ` Xiyue Deng
2023-12-07 10:16     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-07 17:49       ` Xiyue Deng
2023-12-07 17:56         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-07 19:54           ` Xiyue Deng
2023-12-07 20:22             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-07 20:37               ` Xiyue Deng
2023-12-07 21:29                 ` Drew Adams
2023-12-08  9:11                   ` Xiyue Deng
2023-12-08  6:25                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-08  9:07                   ` Xiyue Deng
2023-12-08 15:37                   ` Drew Adams
2023-12-07 19:37         ` Drew Adams [this message]
2023-12-07 20:00           ` Xiyue Deng
2023-12-08 10:45         ` Sean Whitton
2023-12-08 22:41           ` Xiyue Deng

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=SJ0PR10MB5488C49118C35F756EDA2139F38BA@SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com \
    --to=drew.adams@oracle.com \
    --cc=67669@debbugs.gnu.org \
    --cc=eliz@gnu.org \
    --cc=manphiz@gmail.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).