From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16271: warn about quoted const's in defcustom Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 14:21:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87v8ude4bz.fsf@gnus.org> <875ymce3x7.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31077"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "16271@debbugs.gnu.org" <16271@debbugs.gnu.org> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Glenn Morris Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed May 11 16:23:28 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nonFP-0007st-5S for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Anybody > > got any suggestions how to work around that? Suggestions given. And ignored. > I just changed that form, since it seemed pretty > nonsensical anyway. Clearly that doesn't solve the problem at all. The problem is not the existence of that code in Emacs. The problem is the lack of good help regarding the possible values. And a quoted symbol (more generally, a quoted sexp) is perfectly fine as a value, here. Not typical, but fine. Whether vanilla Emacs code contains such an example is 100% irrelevant. Removing that code in order to avoid a warning message is, well, misguided. That just masks/hides the problem. But it also points to the fact that using a _warning_ to solve the problem is misguided. The problem is insufficient communication to users of what the possible values are. And in particular, that (1) you typically use a value without quoting it, AND (2) you can use a quoted sexp if you in fact want the value that's used to be a quoted sexp. To communicate that information a warning is (1) inappropriate - there's nothing to "warn" about, and (2) insufficient - no simple warning text will make clear what's involved. There's _no substitute_ for documenting this properly in the manual. Include an example. That there's no substitute for documenting this in the manual doesn't mean that other help can't also be provided somehow, somewhere. But not a _warning_. That's counter-productive and misleading. > I've now pushed this checker to Emacs 29, and=20 > it found a handful of wrongly quoted symbols, > which I've also fixed. If they were truly wrongly quoted, great. But irrelevant to fixing this problem, which is one of helping users understand. Misses the point altogether. It doesn't tell users about either of (1) and (2). Instead, it suggests something else - that there's actually something to _warn_ about. > However, as the 'nicknames thing shows, there > may be legitimate usages of the 'foo form, so > perhaps the checker should be hidden behind a > user option. Of course there are legitimate uses. And no, nothing about this should be hidden behind a user option. > But I guess we'll find out. Maybe in another decade or two this will get handled properly. Or not.