From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#61281: =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9C`?=(a \, b)=?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9D?= equals to =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9C`?=(a . , b)=?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9D?= Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2023 16:43:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87ilgfsaav.fsf@web.de> <87edr3s6v8.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17205"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Xie Shynur , "61281@debbugs.gnu.org" <61281@debbugs.gnu.org> To: Michael Heerdegen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 06 17:44:20 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pP4bM-0004FZ-0C for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2023 17:44:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pP4b9-0006tI-RA; Mon, 06 Feb 2023 11:44:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pP4b5-0006sj-0s for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2023 11:44:03 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pP4b4-0003XD-L5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2023 11:44:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pP4b4-0005XR-HC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2023 11:44:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2023 16:44:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61281 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 61281-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61281.167570182921257 (code B ref 61281); Mon, 06 Feb 2023 16:44:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 61281) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2023 16:43:49 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49717 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pP4ar-0005Wl-8d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2023 11:43:49 -0500 Original-Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]:29258) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pP4ap-0005We-Ev for 61281@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2023 11:43:47 -0500 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (m0333520.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 316DnZgQ014651; Mon, 6 Feb 2023 16:43:47 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2022-7-12; bh=O8QwJTbldt4VcWWr8O/0p9R69tLCS+hOlexuN1v90IM=; b=CSa2RIyhIY6Kq8kRAsEUH+0O66yTP1EM6WzDbEHB7v/B3ptcg2qeq5k2OFtAkeITomeW Xp6cxymgRW0dwU6wDrtf7NCtRzixOcLHsa7Uk6Xfs4ZxM7hOGNpAp6/4Kx65zPS8B1O9 o3qojKMDRqfH2ISA261PS04nBIXXTc+JCKSZA7RcNoDH+7NUdH767oNrFzPfS3oJF9QP HWAYxi7A1G95RolrQV8O7ZiKV9pj4oiShB9d3OizzHxIAe+MWAIURhqQMlvdofiJbZKA Q3T/Vdt2oijfPKLOkZyWJoGs9eQ16Fsn7zt41VbPSmY+HVIL6ljVK7zWJJjG6JH0HwPX tg== Original-Received: from phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (phxpaimrmta02.appoci.oracle.com [147.154.114.232]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3nhfdcbcn3-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 06 Feb 2023 16:43:46 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.5/8.17.1.5) with ESMTP id 316GBPb1020857; Mon, 6 Feb 2023 16:43:41 GMT Original-Received: from nam12-mw2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-mw2nam12lp2043.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.66.43]) by phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3nhdt4a56w-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 06 Feb 2023 16:43:41 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=izlHIPeVnczp++uCdTvB+hX5n3U8lkqutshxwq3Si94z84QsaZfBZLLrWfSV8sR5TtQTHj4BBt9rwbgTZ9Sxr2AsrJ08yJ7gPx7ITGrx3j1A6Mf9cD+8YLKhD+GKoYJ17gkjKdKhsQR5+Bz6s+zA24FlgrJNb9/0yuK8W3/EBTpZS4+k2Y6nQIjRTKvDDUBtsMgKvqdYcUz/RAXXmJRprARqXW04h2Mpd68+oMKpUA6daQEkF5JQxBd15/Dekx1au9x6+n262f9yGxk7EpK98Ji6BcTHt6ImH5TqsUCPG9J5wwtd3L4+rlIFQCBLVTDIAFEMB83JCfdkBBmepEFmWg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=O8QwJTbldt4VcWWr8O/0p9R69tLCS+hOlexuN1v90IM=; b=iyozfKHicEB6Vz/hNiWOw1qhtZHT1IymSzb+mHhwsEBp9Ld3BPpZuCDOa4dvuOPAKlPkerPYZyljmUyUrUgaSesmWvCJDbWB+IGHkaR+9kIcPg8HahLJg9KekpsiiiXcC1I/zK+39VdHNvEfIzZ2JP6IsY62WZbeDDOY0dV0c9kMGFkSmRlfUXR/56yqG/71REgvwRGmV13uWdWBRvkoWecGZzG+HJJyj4AKO92iWmi7nUPi4f2dCsHFBAlXRV3gvMNgJzP9ZmvVHPcD/ni8tl5GEXeZNqkjxlMISY2xyvsM/UQAhVQ+ddlOa2lkJAahz0nxDGmVhTQ0f6KsdlDXcQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=O8QwJTbldt4VcWWr8O/0p9R69tLCS+hOlexuN1v90IM=; b=KQVZBQ8ExdlPA3t6Ne3VbMJwuPGOgpVEcB9ybCRzBfRjU5pvP51xw+O1e0ImoiWOxCFluiSwHA8wU0rFp6hfRRYijlAw5I55Xn+kpySWTguxY3lqkkhn6oqDzYvOYr8f4jng3Qj6Wfz9nAy0w0twPr5MwiOUEIb803pheuf3isw= Original-Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by DM6PR10MB4153.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:5:21d::9) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6086.7; Mon, 6 Feb 2023 16:43:39 +0000 Original-Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d353:3fb:94e4:18b9]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d353:3fb:94e4:18b9%7]) with mapi id 15.20.6086.015; Mon, 6 Feb 2023 16:43:39 +0000 Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#61281: =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9C`?=(a \, b)=?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9D?= equals to =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9C`?=(a . , b)=?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9D?= Thread-Index: AQHZOetkPuIQWBy1dkadjS3408cZJq7CGJoA In-Reply-To: <87edr3s6v8.fsf@web.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|DM6PR10MB4153:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4b999523-2a67-4bf2-d31e-08db08614cbb x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230025)(366004)(346002)(136003)(376002)(39860400002)(396003)(451199018)(38100700002)(83380400001)(41300700001)(2906002)(9686003)(5660300002)(38070700005)(4326008)(122000001)(33656002)(6506007)(478600001)(52536014)(8936002)(26005)(7696005)(55016003)(6916009)(66556008)(44832011)(186003)(86362001)(54906003)(71200400001)(316002)(66446008)(66476007)(66946007)(76116006)(64756008); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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 D58gxe/fxJTOBgAZCXWyfLueaFJHrr7cQwIaKw3rBgMGO4viRV9VyNfUh+sCvZVB3Z/n9GNQc1chE3yB9S5hcdCtKTD/ouh/BY X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 S6Yto/gPHrsDxN1KS//MT5+CdxMkBLFvKbftXx0suSnCEmz61C7l/GfvspCiCU/I+GU40lK5odqburJ9FI X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4b999523-2a67-4bf2-d31e-08db08614cbb X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Feb 2023 16:43:39.4659 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 7XrkdVAdovF47xspuxRWHLjLV3PTyOOj8LBoDZocIG+0pCxoh6lQ+DPyWMHWeZNG9DsSHX4C/5z7TBm0bahyHw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR10MB4153 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.219,Aquarius:18.0.930,Hydra:6.0.562,FMLib:17.11.122.1 definitions=2023-02-06_07,2023-02-06_03,2022-06-22_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=715 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2212070000 definitions=main-2302060146 X-Proofpoint-GUID: QSymAZLMT2Mt8WUmJOfcWQmSKql4gTAO X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: QSymAZLMT2Mt8WUmJOfcWQmSKql4gTAO X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:254976 Archived-At: > > I see a difference between escaped comma and > > escaped comma before @. The above "are expanded > > to" doesn't cover this, I think. For example: > > [...] > > `(a \, foo) ; =3D=3D> (a 4 5) - bad, the bug case >=20 > It's a logical consequence (although not an obvious one, but also not > totally unobvious) of the fact that this expression is equivalent to > `(a . ,foo). Again, I think you're describing the implementation, not why it _should_ behave this way. IF we assume (whether or not this bug will be fixed), as I thought we agreed (?), that it makes more sense for bare "\," within backquote, just as outside it, and just as for UNbare escaped comma (e.g. "\,xyz"), whether inside or outside backquote, to escape/undo the backquote-meaning of "," THEN the sexp `(a \, foo) should just return (a \, foo), a list of three symbols. > > The \,@ cases and the \,foo case "work" because > > \, immediately followed by any escaped char or > > unescaped whitespace etc. works. It's only \, > > followed by unescaped whitespace etc. that > > doesn't work. >=20 > `(a \,@ foo) would correspond to `(a . ,@foo), which=20 > would be illegal as backquote expression. Whether "illegal" or not, in Elisp it already works as I would expect, and as I showed: 3. `(a \,@ foo) ; =3D=3D> (a \,@ foo) - good Elisp correctly escapes the comma, to be a normal symbol constituent, and the symbol name ",@" is used. Nothing in the backquote sexp calls for any evaluation; the result is the same list of 3 symbols as the input to `. > Relying on the return value of that expression=20 > is calling for trouble. How so? On what basis do you think it's "illegal"? > I have the same opinion about this as above. Which is that it runs counter to what you say the Elisp implementation gives? But clearly the Elisp implementation doesn't agree. The only bug, IMO, is that an escaped isolated comma is not actually escaped from the backquote interpretation/behavior of comma. There's no bug for an escaped comma that's immediately followed by other symbol chars (including @). =20 > > Agreed, but I don't think just describing those > > expansions that way is sufficient. For one > > thing, what's X? Whether certain chars follow > > the comma immediately makes a difference. >=20 > The author is allowed to add more details about > how the reader parses that character of course. Author of the code? The original comment? My mail? I don't have a suggestion for the comment improvement. Unless it's to say what I've said in this thread, perhaps showing some of the cases. Or maybe just refer to this bug thread in the comments. And perhaps adding a FIXME to confirm that there's a bug - if, that is, the Deciders agree. > > +;; When the Lisp reader sees `X it generates (\` X). > > +;; When it sees ,X it generates (\, X). For ,@X=20 > > +;; it generates (\,@ X). > > > > I don't think that's sufficient - see above. > > ,X and ,@X aren't handled the same, and it > > matters what X is. X is not necessarily a new > > sexp. >=20 > For the file header this is enough IMO, it only clarifies=20 > what the backquote macro gets to see and needs to handle. The behavior depends on what X is allowed to be. Is it something that parses (is read) as a separate sexp? Is it any sequence of chars? Any sequence of symbol chars? I guess at this point we understand each other and can just agree to disagree. And I guess we agree that it's unlikely that the bug will be fixed. And if it were fixed there may be some code that depends on the bugged behavior (very unlikely, IMO). And (more likely), the fix might introduce new bugs, as this seems tricky.