From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#65344: 28.2; Unable to Edebug cl-flet form which uses argument destructuring Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2023 02:02:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87wmxqs0ti.fsf@web.de> <616b60fc-9f68-14ae-d262-716eb0cc685d@gmail.com> <87h6ot19av.fsf@web.de> <878ra3q4kk.fsf@web.de> <87il97obdi.fsf@web.de> <87edju4mzd.fsf@web.de> <87edjsghyf.fsf@web.de> <87il93kbn0.fsf@web.de> <87sf868xq5.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1301"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Gerd =?UTF-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= , "brandon.irizarry@gmail.com" , Eli Zaretskii , "65344@debbugs.gnu.org" <65344@debbugs.gnu.org> To: Michael Heerdegen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 26 04:03:10 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qZidp-00008c-Rl for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 04:03:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZidg-00089p-NB; Fri, 25 Aug 2023 22:03:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZide-000895-EM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2023 22:02:58 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZide-0001dg-6X for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2023 22:02:58 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qZidi-0001ph-DW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2023 22:03:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2023 02:03:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65344 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 65344-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65344.16930153396987 (code B ref 65344); Sat, 26 Aug 2023 02:03:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 65344) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Aug 2023 02:02:19 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41280 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qZid0-0001od-M8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2023 22:02:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:48314) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qZicv-0001oP-5L for 65344@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2023 22:02:17 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (m0333521.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 37PIEnDq009193; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 02:02:07 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2023-03-30; bh=jdhNQmHbsLWKqRm6IthvOSM2kuVYHhjWm9Nr2sPc5v8=; b=ouL10R7rZSpN3LPYTaAuqfoXqBmM4JOVIyrVyti543ulObGItE8GRL8d+sTgjmXMXnR4 KsCefP9R+GJ6eQP+vKijei9z0YnxCP8XWdjHZYpSGXMjI4XaO9RLBQu9lpKLbCMozkXI 0WR2lKU+94NMsh553UjoYZWJKfLtM2+MCBCOEqL1HnZZP+MjJ90CHT/IBgJ/aPZJ/5si VvvafBl49nhngUQFEv/G/NER0vZNU0odjSv2f9AnCL+oFdS0IhHecdpcXADTUkp/qCjA rU4xwmbDjKKbY2xfP+35Mkmih+m3e0AbZCJJ5501wEfwupgVk4V2L/MRlKpwVg3MG/9s qw== Original-Received: from phxpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (phxpaimrmta01.appoci.oracle.com [138.1.114.2]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3sn20dfgdb-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 26 Aug 2023 02:02:06 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (phxpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by phxpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 37Q1WvuO040246; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 02:02:06 GMT Original-Received: from nam10-bn7-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn7nam10lp2101.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.70.101]) by phxpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3sq7u1rgu4-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 26 Aug 2023 02:02:06 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=IZsZgebr9O+Y7FY0fJXpjqfgfTkYAd6fKMrgCIny8k1pnQ6erOuFRBWTn1b3YjxLm7esDFLs1L2yeubpJxi+SlPvYm2gw619J+5N59UnVdpZfHnJSuBFyJicFDTNy9uwvTH4ptvEwoTUOSBz8Vu70vhEUk3wfCxOXNROH6BPJLlWJK+j78qMs/nD6RV2YgIuUiMyt6EZ589vmrFarYDPIdeiNPmgs/wRR3NSbdsOQYjkS+Z0VSvLN/7iVTdvwQidXnaixBqoqH0jrYZeNFXcxr7NRPQ5W97C+MhrbbjLH/EUOUYhFypDLyrtzi1vZMQklVWckYRyL0Ich3iZTn26oA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=jdhNQmHbsLWKqRm6IthvOSM2kuVYHhjWm9Nr2sPc5v8=; b=RKIwDZrAk2Kk9qgeOEDMIpl2iGySv4GtvXGV0+50ZAC+ygcSNkvjFKGfUntDPa0m+rXMwMyzMLZJFOinJKAfgP/rBbCok4muipKKKQH3J0TNUnS7ptZqLZ7cPFlBlZGLY9wbI8qVPjQHzelgvYTCZ0hCSmUjsXhILCnoUVSg4wz1wgA9VLRnmEXBxyvXguTlUVdub9yj551OH1X6J9oTsrVAUj4Gs2tJYIjTPO8uh4hWTvah8KZam5YrcVAiidolEhbCQ0CLuErYsQyp3hbunuc/uFyiS9DrFh7Ce4WD3If4oPxvQ08EWnrNqqGFKKMDXWcnOioKM5wFnmslI8elRw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=jdhNQmHbsLWKqRm6IthvOSM2kuVYHhjWm9Nr2sPc5v8=; b=csPxGbTJjGfOjYssdGDTSd4sOWbSqRBqM91+O5O7WN0pAMxXmBBlzwg20+jif/IhrRR8qbfCEUNUn13c77foClbZVJRM1AjikBQWfj0HOHmRAc7vwtoTJ623RAUH7nL0BONl+rpgQrJlv4/iSBpVR/kXHvU9j9TNYo6EcegaXR0= Original-Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by IA1PR10MB7417.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:448::15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6699.27; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 02:02:03 +0000 Original-Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7da3:721d:d706:8496]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7da3:721d:d706:8496%6]) with mapi id 15.20.6699.028; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 02:02:03 +0000 Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#65344: 28.2; Unable to Edebug cl-flet form which uses argument destructuring Thread-Index: AQHZ17KFST4egnhkgkuOyYuSNGr8XK/70ANQ In-Reply-To: <87sf868xq5.fsf@web.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|IA1PR10MB7417:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 3dbcbe28-2f64-46ff-73ad-08dba5d870fb x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(39860400002)(346002)(136003)(396003)(376002)(366004)(1800799009)(186009)(451199024)(66899024)(44832011)(38070700005)(71200400001)(52536014)(38100700002)(86362001)(76116006)(7696005)(41300700001)(9686003)(66446008)(4326008)(8676002)(316002)(64756008)(8936002)(6916009)(54906003)(66476007)(66556008)(6506007)(122000001)(66946007)(5660300002)(33656002)(55016003)(2906002)(478600001)(83380400001)(26005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: JWAlqj+Ti4wdUw80EBcjrAvBMsaftcR/zq4yl63xB0ZDGJGlaX83Ih1VUUY0SX3Blc+Svaqu12WiwKgx6HSLBzXl4IAAOd9Jvy1rpJGwJk85y0gh7wBVU/7s8zzvOXEGtJE5lyEvBY33/FAuUQp8f7wGWV94KInhE77en4KFiLx9/GP+ZQhqxBd2vbufl6NZ4QyobkIZyvvedn8x2BE7AYSRgefPACPFOMJtvvaR8w0Y7NnRESEABMmnzBOubs5GEYzfxZt7HQL3yxIqcpJFSHuSTZJKA3WffMYgA1pB4iIANZnaAaS4toDUMu1EBzBMuHJdukcdHejqsjQHiYxdlnMnxx69lbRnncP9QXMuxvZV5YCN+/yq+M0mGWTIxF/QNc9zi7g76K5CpP4Q7sUyTNEQxqfkySYyZjRcAz+ADF8+sIoC7Q4SNcRV8FpIwdvdlCVgQG6lbcfVnAZxLKldnUU/fnyQhUrP9s7pJn1j/kcF3zf96FFEguvI/v7xnLmszZoQ6TbtUL32ylPywAv/oUeQQfgmTQKXFrdWBMv0Szws0PRQxIY5TiBhAWGoJJKTgM4g8SrH4qpYTINBoSr8fZ7ENAtop3tBNE6uyoMhKInudVJc1J6Y6Xrr4wcXx2rBxn6ka05xYoUJ7J/qbMHMAjf6wq+SpWCCnF837deGnbdvML7Lo3odA27zmW4yP6wjJ2bTbhV0JLjZjWCkE2eenButQMNl69ZtD+MPpg0JYkvD1iNuJp7bE9++2A qlhIuCqZLcRZIYC3If5S1PxEDo1pMu4NMzHFUgbartXa7VL2aUaA1NxFUFxJ0F9HIRSxLzt2n/cwjK1yR/F/siVc112nEJaeBB X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 PnzvRvp4LC+8E8WEidpaPa/Y8AIgV/q761b6brpf0hM1toEpfzoAV1nMG2pK9Mux9rWy2cwWaQ1yjqjRxHMRuypmmIZGorf+Cq X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 3dbcbe28-2f64-46ff-73ad-08dba5d870fb X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Aug 2023 02:02:03.0075 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: c7Op6Ze1EBhimRyuUP2/hw5FEjDnxNpuU/xlx6AMdsEc/WG+RBR+RTFDxCj2mzSQBtbhwq4schcTjqikuWBMJA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: IA1PR10MB7417 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.267,Aquarius:18.0.957,Hydra:6.0.601,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-08-25_19,2023-08-25_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=761 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2308100000 definitions=main-2308260017 X-Proofpoint-GUID: -E_3K2Ubp0Yq-9DAuTpfhWB2_GB3wZhn X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: -E_3K2Ubp0Yq-9DAuTpfhWB2_GB3wZhn X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:268456 Archived-At: > > OK, so you don't see a problem. Do you see > > a reason why we would add some `cl-foobar' to > > `cl-lib.el', if it's a function that has no > > relation to Common Lisp? Does it make any > > sense to you that someone might expect it to > > be housed elsewhere, with a different prefix > > (or with no prefix)? > > > > That's all I'm trying to say here. Let's avoid > > stuffing non-CL stuff in `cl*.el' files. Is it > > necessary to clean house wholesale, moving and > > renaming things to fix this mixup? No. I'm > > not proposing disruption or extra work - just a > > recognition of a will to avoid adding not CL > > stuff to `cl*.el' files and giving it prefix > > `cl-'. Nothing revolutionary or heavy-handed > > intended. >=20 > Sorry about mentioning flet again, but it's a good example to discuss. > Would you want that we have cl-flet, which is an restricted version > of the current implementation, and cl-flet*, which is like the current > cl-flet? Or two constructs with non-overlapping semantics? Or was > extending cl-flet as had been done ok for you? I have nothing to say about `flet', `cl-flet', or `cl-flet*'. I'm pretty i= gnorant of all that. > Your suggestion sounds logical and objective, but what has "a relation to > CL" or is "not CL" is a bit subjective, it is an individual decision > where to draw the line. I mean, anyone could agree with your claim but > some may still come to other decision than you would expect. Judgment calls, yes. Especially if trying not to be black-&-white, given where things are at (not starting from scratch). A judgment call, but it need not be only up to an individual. No different from having and following other conventions, we have - e.g., wrt coding style. Wrt any concrete change, there would presumably be some discussion, with those closer to things likely weighing in with more authority. I'm only saying that AFAIK there hasn't been any such attempt to avoid putting extraneous stuff in `cl*.el'. I've brought up the question in the past wrt specific things (don't recall what), but it wasn't thought to be important to keep `cl-' for CL. That approach/attitude tends to lead to more such mix-up, not less. It's not about perfection. It's about having a will/goal not to add unrelated stuff to `cl*.el'. Not such a big deal or so hard to grasp, I think. And doesn't require everyone to agree about each detail. It's about a general wish/commitment to aim to have `cl*.el' for CL stuff.