From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#61281: =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9C`?=(a \, b)=?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9D?= equals to =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9C`?=(a . , b)=?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9D?= Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2023 02:26:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87a61tgdkx.fsf@web.de> <875ycghgv1.fsf@web.de> <871qn4hfte.fsf@web.de> <87fsbju0of.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14190"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Xie Shynur , "61281@debbugs.gnu.org" <61281@debbugs.gnu.org> To: Michael Heerdegen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 06 03:27:13 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pOrDt-0003W1-8S for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Yes, that's what I was saying. > That's the only thing you need to remember. I think you're making a virtue out of necessity. ;-) Yes, that's the way comma is implemented inside backquote in Elisp. So yes, just remember that implementation factoid. =20 > > And here's the error from either (read ",") > > or (eval (read ",")): > > > > End of file during parsing > > > > Yes, an error should be reported in each case, > > but I think it should just say that comma is > > undefined outside of backquote. >=20 > S-exps are defined recursively. ",X" is read > syntax of a valid s-exp, That it is so is only because Elisp implements it as that particular read macro. And the question is about "\,", not ",". (setq ,X 42) ; =3D> 42 (setq \,X 42) ; =3D> (wrong-type-argument symbolp (\, X)) > Ok, so everything is about that you don't want > that ,X and (\, X) are equivalent. You can say that, I suppose. I'd instead say that it's about being able to escape a comma inside a backquote - just like elsewhere, so it's just treated like a symbol character, even in the case where it's the only char in the symbol name. (I'd be interested in what the case is in Common Lisp, including what a typical implementation is.) > All your arguments were of the kind "the implications are > surprising". But you never answered the core question: what should ,X > expand to instead that would not have any of these implications? Else > all you say is that it's surprising when you lack knowledge. If you say so. I haven't said anything about the implementation: what "," should expand to. I'd say that if unescaped its behavior should be to do what it does now. (FWIW, I don't think I said that the behavior or their implications are surprising. But yes, I didn't expect "\," to not escape out of the backquote handling of ",". I didn't expect comma to be any different from period or @.) The question is whether \, and , should have the same behavior. Certainly \z and z have the same behavior. But character z has no special behavior inside a backquote. \@ and @ don't have the same behavior inside a backquote. And neither do \. and . -- only \, and , have the same behavior. To me, that's just an implementation/design thing, not something normal or inevitable. Not a big deal, not the end of the world. I minor unfortunate thing (gotcha). > OTOH it seems not easy to find the information ,X =3D=3D (\, X) somewhere= . > Is there a place where there is said something about the kind of > expression the reader construct ,X produces? I didn't find anything in > a rush. It should be explained, else this thing indeed can lead to > surprises, as the one reported here. I pointed to the comments in the code. They tell the story. But I don't think there's any such explanation/description in the doc. Normally we wouldn't need anything like that -- we'd consider that to be just implementation/plumbing. But in this case it seems that users need to know the implementation if they're really to understand the behavior. But only if they need to use a symbol named "," normally inside backquote -- a rare case, surely. Again, the bug is certainly a tiny corner case. It's not like users can't use backquote syntax without knowing this aspect of the implementation. It's not elegant, but it works pretty well.