From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#50999: [External] : bug#50999: 29.0.50; Deleting libraries obsolete since Emacs 24 Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 21:33:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87sfw45k8w.fsf@yahoo.com> <87wnleq9bu.fsf@yahoo.com> <874k8ihsuy.fsf@gnus.org> <87ee7mq7pj.fsf@yahoo.com> <87wnldsxb2.fsf@gnus.org> <87v90xq3ry.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ilwvh8c5.fsf@gnus.org> <83mtm6tyip.fsf@gnu.org> <83ilwutxc3.fsf@gnu.org> <83ee7itvj1.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17191"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "luangruo@yahoo.com" , "50999@debbugs.gnu.org" <50999@debbugs.gnu.org>, "larsi@gnus.org" , "stefan@marxist.se" , "rms@gnu.org" To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 14 22:35:16 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mmN9g-0004EQ-3M for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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CAT:NONE; SFS:(366004)(4326008)(6506007)(71200400001)(508600001)(33656002)(316002)(55016002)(5660300002)(122000001)(9686003)(52536014)(8676002)(7696005)(66476007)(38100700002)(66556008)(66446008)(64756008)(8936002)(66946007)(86362001)(6916009)(38070700005)(186003)(26005)(76116006)(44832011)(2906002)(54906003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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 KsPFyzoCrbS5BIWiOhQYD4FZfEErytHVJM5EuvTCAqDWLXqj5wbuBWDqu93BqLBK+l4Ex5gSuUUXWiBh+nibdI5Svg/Hlr7mif X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2b3fe16b-c755-4e4a-f47a-08d9a7b676b8 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Nov 2021 21:33:56.6289 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: NbmB5fsBRxC8J8h6DnYFlyHpW6FkQ4QWTWZXIu2FwUGz5AWenTdZJu9sf9V8poJQt7VSbMl8zR8xvN0bGe4YPw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR10MB3142 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10168 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=900 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2110150000 definitions=main-2111140128 X-Proofpoint-GUID: BKQLdGIrakrT4cUgch6_p466nM_7Rdtr X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: BKQLdGIrakrT4cUgch6_p466nM_7Rdtr X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:220012 Archived-At: > > > > The point is that there's no obligation to > > > > make changes (maintenance or other) to code > > > > that you've declared is "obsolete". > > > > > > It's easy for you to say that, since you don't > > > have to pick up the gauntlet of the maintenance. > > > The downside is non-negligible. > > > > What's the obligation to maintain any > > particular obsolete code? >=20 > Lars answered that up-thread. Where? I see that he claimed this: > If we distribute code, then we'll be fixing > bugs in that code. I don't think there's > any way around that. No reason given there - just a claim that such fixing has to be done. And elsewhere in the thread he said this: > We have to get rid of things that we no longer > think is very useful in Emacs, otherwise Emacs > will grow unbounded, and we don't have the > maintainer capacity for that. I don't see any evidence that keeping what we have means Emacs will grow unbounded. And some things are anyway removed or replaced without their ever having been made obsolete. There's no reason given there, for supposing that even unbounded growth - which would come from the growth of code that's NOT obsolete - would in any way add to the maintenance burden ("maintainer capacity" and "gauntlet of the maintenance"). Lots of holes, if that's the reason you meant to reference. But please do point to what you really mean, to make things clear. I don't see where Lars or anyone else gave a reason that would oblige anyone to fix bugs in such code. It should also be easy enough for you to restate the reason, or summarize it, if you too can't find it. ___ Here's a related question, which might hint at whether there's reason to suppose that not removing obsolete code _would_ impose a maintenance burden: When was the last maintenance done on obsolete code? When was _any_ bug fixed on such code? IOW, how about measuring past such work, as an indication of the supposed burden? This question is different from whether there's some obligation for performing such maintenance. IOW, even if we suppose such an obligation, what's the actual burden to be expected?