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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: Philipp <p.stephani2@gmail.com>, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
Cc: Pip Cet <pipcet@gmail.com>,
	"33414@debbugs.gnu.org" <33414@debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: bug#33414: [External] : bug#33414: 27.0.50; inhibit-changing-match-data can be t in syntax-propertize functions, breaking backtrace and looking-at
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2021 19:33:49 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <SJ0PR10MB5488298C09C7E5EE3E927EC1F3D09@SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <22C40A08-9611-4925-B840-8F3795175B0F@gmail.com>

> Yes, using a public dynamic variable (i.e., public global mutable
> state) to influence the behavior of a function is normally a bad idea.

Define "normally".  Yes, it presents problems.
Lots of things in a language like Lisp present
problems.

> Effectively, the dynamic variable becomes a hidden parameter to the
> function, and robust code has to bind it explicitly do override any
> surprising binding up the call stack.

Correct.

> You normally don't see such a coding style in
> other programming languages,

You don't see _lots_ of Lisp things in most other
programming languages.

> and ELisp would be better off without it, too.

Even Common Lisp is better off _having_ it.  For
Elisp that's 1000 times truer.

Users of Emacs as an interactive application,
an editor (and more) _use Lisp_, including to
customize out-of-the-box behavior.

Elisp's designer - and Emacs's designer - pointed
out the reasons why dynamic binding is important
for Emacs Lisp, _in particular_.

https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-paper.html#SEC17

https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-paper.html#SEC18

Those reasons are as important today as they
were when that was written.  Elisp invites and
encourages user tweaking - with Lisp - the OOTB
code.  Monkey patching is part of that, in spite
of its negative connotation, and in spite of the
(quite real) drawbacks.

Lisp (even for batch uses) has a ton of things
that offer both possibilities and drawbacks.
Lisp isn't Haskell. (Even Scheme isn't Haskell.)





  reply	other threads:[~2021-09-04 19:33 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 14+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-11-17 13:30 bug#33414: 27.0.50; inhibit-changing-match-data can be t in syntax-propertize functions, breaking backtrace and looking-at Pip Cet
2018-11-17 13:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-11-17 14:14   ` Pip Cet
2018-11-17 14:36     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-12 13:11       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-09-04 18:39         ` Philipp
2021-09-04 19:33           ` Drew Adams [this message]
2021-09-05  9:29           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-09-05  9:40             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-05  9:45               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-09-05  9:55                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-07 18:49                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-07 19:07                     ` bug#33414: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-10-07 19:11                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen

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