From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23085: [External] : Re: bug#23085: 24.5; `customized-changed-options` Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 18:08:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1d396d5e-a6ea-4f44-8b14-3eeeb2bb10ae@default> <87zh0g3r9h.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1lrnbki.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37916"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "23085@debbugs.gnu.org" <23085@debbugs.gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii , Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 07 19:09:10 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l8oUf-0009kn-OW for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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and > "customize-changed" is simply bad English and doesn't help > understanding what it is about. So I think Richard was right with > that change. * What does `M-x customize-option' do? * What does `M-x apropos-user-option' do? Such commands are an important way in which Emacs talks about itself and communicates with users. I can, however, agree that Emacs is somewhat inconsistent wrt terminology about user settings. I think the inconsistency has been brought in over time, in one or both directions. The greatest inconsistency is that the Emacs manual glossary entry for "User Option" says that it is a face or a variable. There was at least one general discussion about such terminology in emacs-devel a number of years back (I don't have a reference, sorry). In that discussion I argued that we should have both: 1. A term for all such user settings. I proposed "preference" or even "setting". 2. A term for just user variables, custom variables, or what is most commonly called "option" by Emacs. A face setting is just as optional as an "option" setting - on that I agree. "Option" isn't the best possible term for a customizable variable (but at least it's short, unlike "customizable variable"). Something like "user variable" is also ambiguous. A name that refers to Customize in some way helps, but it can be longer than what we often want to use. I'd favor more consistent use of terminology, and a reconsideration of "option" is possible in that context. But we need a term for #2, as well as #1, and we don't really have either consistently. And then there's the weight of history, and the existence of commands etc. whose names use such terms. If there's a real attempt to fix the terminology inconsistency in the help and doc, then it might be easier to not also need to change command, other function, and variable names to reflect such a terminology fix/change. __ There are yet other kinds of user settings, which could be considered in this context, including: 1. frame parameters 2. property values on symbols (e.g. command symbols) ___ As far as this bug goes, I think that, unless we really do make the terminology consistent throughout, this bug should be fixed as requested. If we do then, at some point, update and harmonize the terminology then there might be multiple such names to change. At least this bug fix aligns this name with the rest of Customize (commands such as `customize-option'etc.).