From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#11445: [External] : bug#11445: 24.0.96; Customize buffer edit fields should have undo Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2021 17:51:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <428727A8D734409481B739A7443120C5@us.oracle.com> <87h7ig94zg.fsf@gnus.org> <87o8co4fu4.fsf@tbb.theblackbeard.org> <87h7ifberm.fsf@gnus.org> <87sg1zdk3k.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40055"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "11445@debbugs.gnu.org" <11445@debbugs.gnu.org>, Mauro Aranda To: Michael Heerdegen , Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 03 19:53:10 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lorWn-000AAc-Jh for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 03 Jun 2021 19:53:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52742 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lorWm-0003XT-Li for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 03 Jun 2021 13:53:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39092) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lorWg-0003X6-9R for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Jun 2021 13:53:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:33108) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lorWg-00039c-2Z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Jun 2021 13:53:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lorWg-00073h-2J for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Jun 2021 13:53:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2021 17:53:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11445 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 11445-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11445.162274272627028 (code B ref 11445); Thu, 03 Jun 2021 17:53:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 11445) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jun 2021 17:52:06 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44650 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lorVl-00071s-Vs for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 03 Jun 2021 13:52:06 -0400 Original-Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:20402) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lorVj-00071j-Rm for 11445@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 03 Jun 2021 13:52:04 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (m0246627.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 153Hm9fa025451; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 17:52:02 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=ZDrq22gftFHxHzFNB/KSD0O7EWrZgS1J7AYoMyqvkO0=; b=gX4eEAkNW+510lNimtcPGSr4YzCSbfiEHZBstTdDDRtN0leS39JuqZTYKioKt4IHxYFv CwKyFpvpSrHW89Bo37uP/bpMpu4BEBT0rFzR2pZ9xoX2vnGJnTMp4+7j2ypw/SDXuoO4 NzaLsBTuajhieRKkHnmilDbR3zBgwdVIOPpymrcLGzjvhfmCwAX2SvD7bAHgCmWc0SP1 EGr2XtXEX+q2HesD2x8Rfx9C/pzF4cFSKcb7/b2Tv8RPM0yVUQ21SdXinxxhQlqq9bFx NAKm/2CFrJkz9Vq+BYKMQgmmp/nso1PerFYEh3hbKxp2jGzTAz31L550HnUp03kccIpQ bg== Original-Received: from oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 38y0j7g2j1-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 03 Jun 2021 17:52:02 +0000 Original-Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by pps.podrdrct (8.16.0.36/8.16.0.36) with SMTP id 153HmDEs133177; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 17:52:01 GMT Original-Received: from nam11-dm6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam11lp2171.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.57.171]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 38xyn14fyk-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 03 Jun 2021 17:52:01 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=gXCWKbufTmsp2E3II3r41huqdFjomTnUEBSw2F4oWIB+K84Z2IsxtZqUP0221e2PzIvg3xjmpXUlomot/lLRjTGfwStVMq/BEvHMWoCz9amxV1bX7lvrbGMSXDa7iUcVLZxj+fJIj7b6/7Pk/SB58WgYB1VsO0p+OkvidES6XBWWXj01ZdrwYs8EU8JwLV5IPqrzlB5gbNEv9q5VsR1wCx1A8Re/WTlp/YCeHEGgOIFsslke5dI3e3+Z9ZhFliQJPgUoGfNgsS47xpc/Tu3wQ+23z8pfQRz53HzX5KhdUEgWkHIWkqfr/wuKQ04rxmP65BV/8YMM/oO2WS/WluJY5w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=ZDrq22gftFHxHzFNB/KSD0O7EWrZgS1J7AYoMyqvkO0=; b=TM6vOP+5JK1TvqSZmWtU6Z6l/IvUIoJZPq2KQhcewgNVNX53IEmtxd6fZads54nNHfPpwsu/Ei2CSpkS0Ze5Ns6/k8dK2414cgcDP1iPVl5BnU0a2f4AHB+ZM3iwWNiUBSQFCHhst7KV/YNkae1Y+8+FfHZyuPaDZwiRLxicunrfq+1EDBAPyGrcdioBQkCHktx+epElRxQx6dA8xVD51su1vgPHcX2eMEwltk7RWAI0pknnA7D8V4ttQZT5aNNpOzugVEqtBnXBDIFRJd/ZqzVddifZhrBYvHN1DMEABY3sF50CnamOZBE4o9dW0xehFaxWILqNfQAz5uV7VAkPrw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=ZDrq22gftFHxHzFNB/KSD0O7EWrZgS1J7AYoMyqvkO0=; b=Lz5VT+KjCStuXiWRnD7GfxymURO7KA2VV+BovMT0Two0ozidsPEdnXT1o0dReTHYrsp50dyCqkGd30AOzI8BgFvSSaJSJqjVS94nw/CfgKJQ1Kj2E0BvzdqMYpbT/4aczQLZuWKECDKnW6OVLHwAI/H93jYPEJ7Mmdyw/5ecA5w= Original-Received: from SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:11b::15) by SA2PR10MB4649.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:119::12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4173.22; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 17:51:59 +0000 Original-Received: from SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2109:9725:fd4a:6494]) by SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2109:9725:fd4a:6494%6]) with mapi id 15.20.4195.024; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 17:51:59 +0000 Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#11445: 24.0.96; Customize buffer edit fields should have undo Thread-Index: AQHXWJAiGxFv/d8XXUK1AxAMLeq0basCjxSw In-Reply-To: <87sg1zdk3k.fsf@web.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: web.de; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;web.de; dmarc=none action=none header.from=oracle.com; x-originating-ip: [73.170.83.28] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f5688ee9-7b71-410e-ffc3-08d926b84967 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SA2PR10MB4649: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7691; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(376002)(346002)(366004)(136003)(396003)(39860400002)(2906002)(7696005)(26005)(186003)(6506007)(316002)(478600001)(110136005)(54906003)(44832011)(8676002)(8936002)(122000001)(52536014)(4326008)(86362001)(5660300002)(33656002)(55016002)(66946007)(71200400001)(9686003)(66476007)(64756008)(66446008)(66556008)(76116006)(38100700002)(4744005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: dCzis0vNBwmEgm9UpktvVyHwTcv6WBj6PqZPLtYH05NrC9X+0N8kkENEfWrpa5K6idt5eYPAcmZEP7bTyg3H0e13XT2ClLz8ZrQwtMmm9R9ha9ttCSzNwh5AD2Dlw4cTjZ+v5O3VJfEqQRWFNTFIsv+sya6Ylcm8uYWBVvHhZVw/1L9BhGlL2czghdwZsE9BxOCzRdMfQUXwrQjU/RZcJ++fRARQHXM81dpAtdieEZwUyad5msKLE460Q+JqerVD0ZBapIWYHyBaEChB4F52o3BzIAajVyWfRLaWe856os8bvIsVa3112n3S4JQ5SOlmXEcmwApMAus4TVsPHB6jx5QvYEA9q5eZpZkg/nH7fZB7ncri8Pay5qGAVA7nYapvCqcDh1ECMrQqjB2qUqqvJAqa7fvRUdnzUq5mrY/rLZTwHZ68fp5Q6QVOYsaifTiqlVZE/1vdJDF5wKipyquvYVfFLyMydoLBfVktO3AjBADRkAXPcGEXopq4mZScyyRnCOQnBrK+qYR9vbQzXvGqoxUkgkxxvl/qSGU8OONAEYG3Yq3p3ffL/Ot5BSBOTJgCVoDYT+bkwzxvwLG9zCV2e3munMo5KKB8pQ1jJSjRNUUdpoRKZYHbTT1dKjIn9O5RD2Pp9EncfSeCqtYOB+m8odwoj/nld/1MYJsqw6mrN8f3cTgbR6XvMXi++QatCT0vgO1PnW6gM+bAUItb1/oAlY8l13naztY2dijyDC+7Px3yNnnZXEXBSH7nNVQs 4QMBD5nk0IkY9dRINlN6+JWSK1QgLj2s1fc2GZ7mU8Qw6+5XsV1yqUETSMe5ttp5AuAawFXBsC0WB8t7nustSMldYZab+3ENYG x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f5688ee9-7b71-410e-ffc3-08d926b84967 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Jun 2021 17:51:59.6299 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: HERR5GJ0L5goPBm31pKY4l/iXQNFBmgaL5gbadAGLAn9DrBiEX2L4ONNkZrjB5N2tXbJgZL6ohLC6L0l4xCBpw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA2PR10MB4649 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=10004 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2104190000 definitions=main-2106030120 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: ufWTclyfSaLY-0tZAuaL5wFRynN6og1s X-Proofpoint-GUID: ufWTclyfSaLY-0tZAuaL5wFRynN6og1s X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:207963 Archived-At: > > > C-x u again: "No further undo information". But that's not expected;= if > > > undo worked, the field value would be the default value. > > > > Ah, right -- I can reproduce that, too. >=20 > Question is whether it's even well defined to do this differently. >=20 > It's not that every text field has its own undo. Undo stops at points > when widgets changed because undoing further would undo changes > involving widgets, which ones are there, how they look like, etc. Since > using widgets has side effects (like setting variables or saving) just > undoing anything would potentially lead to an inconsistent state. >=20 > How would you address this problem? I think I understand what you're saying. But undo should be about user actions, and their effects (consequences). Yes, the effects of user actions here include (at least some) "changes involving widgets". Looking at this from (only) a user point of view, this seems broken (i.e., calling for improvement). I have no idea how to address fixing it.=20