From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#5774: 23.1.92; Emacs manual, node Persistent Marks Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 10:07:24 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87mxxgv9qn.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1270574870 27046 80.91.229.12 (6 Apr 2010 17:27:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 17:27:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 5774@debbugs.gnu.org To: "'Chong Yidong'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 06 19:27:44 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NzCYw-0005jz-QE for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 19:27:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57263 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NzCYw-0005pq-6t for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 13:27:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NzCXY-0005Fh-C5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 13:26:16 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=53026 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NzCXW-0005EK-4y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 13:26:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NzCXQ-000090-HR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 13:26:14 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:39946) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NzCXP-00008p-BH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 13:26:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NzCFu-0003ij-ID; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 13:08:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 17:08:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 5774 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 5774-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B5774.127057366614292 (code B ref 5774); Tue, 06 Apr 2010 17:08:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 5774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Apr 2010 17:07:46 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NzCFe-0003iT-F1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 13:07:46 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com ([141.146.126.233]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NzCFc-0003iO-Mu for 5774@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 13:07:45 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o36H7bD0002113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Apr 2010 17:07:39 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by rcsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o36H7aWM012885; Tue, 6 Apr 2010 17:07:36 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt002.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 150978801270573646; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 10:07:26 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.225.69) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 10:07:26 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87mxxgv9qn.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Thread-Index: AcrVpGKngVD3i89ESlWPBacU+lMpMAAAgfaQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090206.4BBB6A59.0107:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 13:08:02 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:35998 Archived-At: > > "When Transient Mark mode is off, the mark is _never_ > > deactivated..." > > > > This is wrong. And it confuses users. Check `C-h v > > mark-active' with t-m-mode off and see if what it says > > makes sense in combination with this Info doc (no). > > It is correct. If tmm is off, the mark starts out inactive, and the > variable `mark-active' is nil. Once you type C-SPC, `mark-active' > becomes t, and remains t regardless of (almost) anything you do. `mark-active' is an internal variable that is irrelevant to this doc and a conceptual understanding. What is relevant for the user's conceptual model is observable behavior, not implementation. It makes no difference what the value of `mark-active' is when t-m-mode is off. Your code can set it to anything at all, including nil, and that will change nothing in terms of observable behavior. What is important to get across here is that activeness of the mark has meaning _only_ for transient-mark-mode and similar, derived modes. (That includes temporary t-m-mode.) Inactive/active affects behavior only for t-m-mode and the like. When t-m-mode is off there is _no recognition_ of the mark states active/inactive - no observable difference or change in behavior. And that's as it should be. > > 2. Replace undo (`C-x u') in the example given by a more > > typical command wrt t-m-mode (e.g. query-replace). > > > > 3. "`C-u C-x C-x' Activate the mark without changing it". > > Remove "without changing it". That doesn't add anything > > except confusion. 4. This node should be renamed. "Persistent Marks" implies persistence, which typically means saving to disk and across sessions. Some 3rd-party Emacs libraries do provide for persistent marks, but that's not what this is about. Please rename the node - perhaps something like `Transient Mark Mode Off' would be a much clearer indicator of the content.