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From: xah lee <xah@xahlee.org>
To: rms@gnu.org
Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: bug#631: the M- notation suggestion
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:53:21 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <FD86CBE0-D920-48F2-92D7-7BC4EE5124CE@xahlee.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1KONS7-0006Yc-SW@fencepost.gnu.org>

> I think you mean "GNU/Linux".


Yes. GNU/Linux. Sorry i forgot i'm talking to you. LOL. (i do support  
GNU/Linux naming)

> Linux has no user interface and its
> documentation has no reason to refer to any specific keys.


In Gnome or KDE, when you pull menus, doesn't the shortcut shows  
beside the menu command names?

I think I forgot to mention this. I think if this suggestion is to be  
adapted, changing the shortcut notation as they are displayed in  
menus should be part of it. Perhaps even more important than the manual.


> Our convention for the GNU system is C-x and M-x, which is what you
> are proposing to change.
>
>     Using a notation that contains the actual label on keyboard's  
> keys is
>     much easier to understand. A beginning computer user, can read the
>     ?Ctrl+?key?? notation and figure out which keys to press.
>
> There is some validity in that argument.
>
> For the Emacs Manual I have a feeling this would be very wasteful.
> But maybe it would be ok for some of the help commands, maybe even for
> all of them.


Wasteful, as in too much effort and little benefit?

I think the effort would be few hours of interactive find/replace in  
the emacs manual's info source. O, there's also emacs tutorial info  
file. Possibly a few more.

the other part is to fix the elisp code so that menus display  
shortcuts using the Alt+ ant Ctrl+ notations. I'm not sure how this  
can be done or how much effort it takes.

I think the benefit would be great, because it gets rid of one big  
learning curve perception that stops people from using emacs.

   Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

-------------------
On Jul 30, 2008, at 6:59 PM, Richard M Stallman wrote:

     The Alt+?key? or Ctrl+?key? notation is universal among
     Windows and Linux.

I think you mean "GNU/Linux".  Linux has no user interface and its
documentation has no reason to refer to any specific keys.

Our convention for the GNU system is C-x and M-x, which is what you
are proposing to change.

     Using a notation that contains the actual label on keyboard's  
keys is
     much easier to understand. A beginning computer user, can read the
     ?Ctrl+?key?? notation and figure out which keys to press.

There is some validity in that argument.

For the Emacs Manual I have a feeling this would be very wasteful.
But maybe it would be ok for some of the help commands, maybe even for
all of them.

☄









  reply	other threads:[~2008-07-31  2:53 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 15+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-07-30  8:49 bug#631: the M- notation suggestion xah lee
2008-07-31  1:59 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-31  2:53   ` xah lee [this message]
2008-07-31 22:01     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-08-01  2:10       ` xah lee
2008-08-01  6:53       ` xah lee
2008-07-31 22:01     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-08-01  2:07       ` xah lee
2008-07-31 17:30   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-01  6:39     ` Yavor Doganov
2008-08-01  7:42       ` xah lee
2008-08-01  8:37       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]       ` <mailman.15692.1217578047.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-08-04 11:11         ` Joe Wells
2008-08-04 11:33           ` xah lee
2008-08-04 11:38           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)

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