From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#10308: 24.0.92; regression: *Help* ruined for toggling read-only Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 06:51:07 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87aa1znoaw.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1335448346 15999 80.91.229.3 (26 Apr 2012 13:52:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 13:52:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 10308@debbugs.gnu.org To: "'Chong Yidong'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 26 15:52:22 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SNP7N-00089S-4m for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 15:52:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50936 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SNP7M-0002rN-KU for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:52:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48169) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SNP7B-0002fU-EK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:52:18 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SNP76-0005eB-Fg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:52:08 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:52883) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SNP76-0005e4-Bn for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:52:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SNP82-0007pQ-BG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:53:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 13:53:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10308 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 10308-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10308.133544834530046 (code B ref 10308); Thu, 26 Apr 2012 13:53:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 10308) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Apr 2012 13:52:25 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53917 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SNP7P-0007oX-AC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:52:24 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:49464) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SNP7N-0007oK-1B for 10308@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:52:22 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q3QDpDaq017098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 26 Apr 2012 13:51:16 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q3QDpCt1024085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 26 Apr 2012 13:51:13 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt117.oracle.com (abhmt117.oracle.com [141.146.116.69]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q3QDpC73008088; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 08:51:12 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.178.21) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 06:51:12 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87aa1znoaw.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: Ac0jX92U0r3Pt8sQTVyJFhRnyK6E8AAUbbUA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:59517 Archived-At: > If you want to edit the buffer, switch to a major mode suitable for > editing buffers. Closing as wontfix. There is no mode so suitable for editing *Help* as its own mode. Changing the mode is not a reasonable workaround, as I reported: >> Now, to be able to edit *Help* you need to change its mode, >> instead of just hitting `C-x C-q'. And if you are >> iteratively fine-tuning doc for *Help*, then each time you >> refresh it from developing code, you need to change the mode >> again before you can edit it. I get the impression that you have never used the capability of making *Help* writable to develop a *Help* screen interactively & iteratively. Otherwise, this should be a no-brainer. But even if you do not use this feature personally, surely you can understand that others might. And surely you can understand that what you have replaced it with is useless to _everyone_. Can you honestly make any argument in favor of the new behavior when writable? Is there any use case for it? It is not even consistent (e.g. DEL vs C-d). It _appears_ that you did not read the bug report, or did not read it well. Please (re-)read it. When toggled to writable, you keep key bindings that make no sense in that context. You do not restore the normal keys, which do make sense. There is now no point in making the buffer writable. You have taken away that functionality for no reason - nothing useful or usable replaces it when the buffer is writable. And it is an incompatible change, but it is not even mentioned in NEWS. How can you in good conscience think there is no bug here?