* bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control
@ 2025-01-06 9:46 Stefan Kangas
2025-01-06 14:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2025-01-07 5:10 ` Richard Stallman
0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2025-01-06 9:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 75398
Severity: wishlist
In files.el, I read this:
;;; Commentary:
;; Defines most of Emacs's file- and directory-handling functions,
;; including basic file visiting, backup generation, link handling,
;; ITS-id version control, load- and write-hook handling, and the like.
I understand that "version control" refers to backup files rather than
VCS, but what is "ITS-id"? I can't find any references to that in the
manual, or by grepping, but since the text was written in 1993, is it
possible that it refers to "Incompatible Time-Sharing System"...?
In any case, I think that part should either be deleted or clarified.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread* bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control
2025-01-06 9:46 bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control Stefan Kangas
@ 2025-01-06 14:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2025-01-06 17:15 ` Stefan Kangas
2025-01-07 5:10 ` Richard Stallman
1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2025-01-06 14:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Kangas, Richard Stallman; +Cc: 75398
> From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 09:46:02 +0000
>
> Severity: wishlist
>
> In files.el, I read this:
>
> ;;; Commentary:
>
> ;; Defines most of Emacs's file- and directory-handling functions,
> ;; including basic file visiting, backup generation, link handling,
> ;; ITS-id version control, load- and write-hook handling, and the like.
>
> I understand that "version control" refers to backup files rather than
> VCS, but what is "ITS-id"? I can't find any references to that in the
> manual, or by grepping, but since the text was written in 1993, is it
> possible that it refers to "Incompatible Time-Sharing System"...?
Yes, I think ITS was the system which introduced numbered backup
files. Maybe someone else (Richard?) could confirm.
This commentary was added by Eric Raymond in March 1993.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control
2025-01-06 14:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2025-01-06 17:15 ` Stefan Kangas
2025-01-06 18:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2025-01-06 17:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii, Richard Stallman; +Cc: Eric S. Raymond, 75398
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>
>> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 09:46:02 +0000
>>
>> Severity: wishlist
>>
>> In files.el, I read this:
>>
>> ;;; Commentary:
>>
>> ;; Defines most of Emacs's file- and directory-handling functions,
>> ;; including basic file visiting, backup generation, link handling,
>> ;; ITS-id version control, load- and write-hook handling, and the like.
>>
>> I understand that "version control" refers to backup files rather than
>> VCS, but what is "ITS-id"? I can't find any references to that in the
>> manual, or by grepping, but since the text was written in 1993, is it
>> possible that it refers to "Incompatible Time-Sharing System"...?
>
> Yes, I think ITS was the system which introduced numbered backup
> files. Maybe someone else (Richard?) could confirm.
>
> This commentary was added by Eric Raymond in March 1993.
The question is how do we update this comment to be relevant in 2025.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control
2025-01-06 17:15 ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2025-01-06 18:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2025-01-07 5:23 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2025-01-06 18:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: esr, rms, 75398
> From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 11:15:26 -0600
> Cc: 75398@debbugs.gnu.org, "Eric S. Raymond" <esr@thyrsus.com>
>
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
> >> From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>
> >> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 09:46:02 +0000
> >>
> >> Severity: wishlist
> >>
> >> In files.el, I read this:
> >>
> >> ;;; Commentary:
> >>
> >> ;; Defines most of Emacs's file- and directory-handling functions,
> >> ;; including basic file visiting, backup generation, link handling,
> >> ;; ITS-id version control, load- and write-hook handling, and the like.
> >>
> >> I understand that "version control" refers to backup files rather than
> >> VCS, but what is "ITS-id"? I can't find any references to that in the
> >> manual, or by grepping, but since the text was written in 1993, is it
> >> possible that it refers to "Incompatible Time-Sharing System"...?
> >
> > Yes, I think ITS was the system which introduced numbered backup
> > files. Maybe someone else (Richard?) could confirm.
> >
> > This commentary was added by Eric Raymond in March 1993.
>
> The question is how do we update this comment to be relevant in 2025.
I'd replace "ITS-id version control" with "version control for
numbered backup files".
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control
2025-01-06 18:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2025-01-07 5:23 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2025-01-07 5:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: esr, 75398-done, rms
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> The question is how do we update this comment to be relevant in 2025.
>
> I'd replace "ITS-id version control" with "version control for
> numbered backup files".
Thanks, I opted to fix it in a different way, see commit 1c49edc4080.
Feel free to tweak that. Meanwhile, I'm closing this bug.
(It's still possible to reply to this bug report for another 90 days.)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control
2025-01-06 9:46 bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control Stefan Kangas
2025-01-06 14:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2025-01-07 5:10 ` Richard Stallman
2025-01-07 12:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2025-01-07 5:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: 75398
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> I understand that "version control" refers to backup files rather than
> VCS, but what is "ITS-id"? I can't find any references to that in the
> manual, or by grepping, but since the text was written in 1993, is it
> possible that it refers to "Incompatible Time-Sharing System"...?
It might. Some of this code may have been translated from TECO in
1984/5. But I can't recall what it that term might refer to.
On ITS, the only place to store a version number was (1) in the second
filename or (2) in the file contents. When that text was written, was
there code in Emacs to store a version number in one of those places?
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control
2025-01-07 5:10 ` Richard Stallman
@ 2025-01-07 12:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2025-01-07 12:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: rms, esr; +Cc: stefankangas, 75398
> Cc: 75398@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2025 00:10:43 -0500
>
> On ITS, the only place to store a version number was (1) in the second
> filename or (2) in the file contents. When that text was written, was
> there code in Emacs to store a version number in one of those places?
Doesn't look like it, I only see the ".~N~" numerical extensions.
You should be able to see the version of files.el at that commit with
this shell command:
$ git show e41b2db1da153e3ead4a01cb6e729cb99cad78ae:lisp/files.el
Maybe Eric simply had ITS in mind when wrote the commentary, though.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
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2025-01-06 9:46 bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control Stefan Kangas
2025-01-06 14:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2025-01-06 17:15 ` Stefan Kangas
2025-01-06 18:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2025-01-07 5:23 ` Stefan Kangas
2025-01-07 5:10 ` Richard Stallman
2025-01-07 12:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
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