From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough. Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 19:47:41 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20160205125559.GC7727@acm.fritz.box> <20160205215301.GG7727@acm.fritz.box> <87ee1isi8r.fsf@gnus.org> <83h7697p7b.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40462"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rgm@gnu.org, johnw@gnu.org, 22564@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, larsi@gnus.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 03 01:48:22 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nlfmA-000ALT-4O for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 03 May 2022 01:48:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56204 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nlfm8-00085p-MO for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 02 May 2022 19:48:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56968) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nlflq-00085d-Rl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 02 May 2022 19:48:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:44406) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nlflq-0003N6-JK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 02 May 2022 19:48:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlflq-0003ra-Fe for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 02 May 2022 19:48:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 23:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22564 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 22564-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22564.165153527714823 (code B ref 22564); Mon, 02 May 2022 23:48:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 22564) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 May 2022 23:47:57 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38303 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlflh-0003qn-RJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 May 2022 19:47:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35324) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlflf-0003q2-U2 for 22564@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 May 2022 19:47:52 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:43036) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nlflY-0003Ie-4G; Mon, 02 May 2022 19:47:44 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=KfhNnd8KD6RIv39Q7DacHAaY0SSoAESlQAHe7MD0amY=; b=VjhsTz7jbOMd 4w/VJ1fdJdV/DLycfsbloZv0hSf0hq8IwE67Mis5U3XNPFVwhht9CLuCOBnLqCd9q64uP2vtyE5Id wt9UZr7HzQ7JXA+7aRpBRhNaqDTUB6arvkWqVRGgddTosNJeFY21SwqTz2og+TPH+VrS2T1HLQ7hn bb573w7OHcD/lONA1alpP0cvdvbo3uSKbZ1kxokV+eooJJ2znXpBAUwRXdkc7kvgdzp3vbrZ0ePYc IQUw391NGmIyO7YQNypU7AkMY0V4Gf8WZIpcA3of5m1UI1zEpF/N1pftk6H/Wk/rAt7rubVTJILtp PZacXDOBPYxO0z+S9KgrgA==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nlflV-0007VV-Fx; Mon, 02 May 2022 19:47:43 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83h7697p7b.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Sun, 01 May 2022 09:16:08 +0300) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:231288 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > The difficulty is that the hook and the characters vary significantly > from major mode to major mode. The latter one, for example, can in > some modes include characters that are very unintuitive, like ':'. That is true -- I did not speak clearly. Of course, when a major mode customizes this, it's the major mode's responsibility to document how it sets up such indentation. But what does Electric Indent mode it do in modes that DON'T customize it? For instance, what does it do in Fundamental mode? It doesn't say. I as a user don't know anywhere to look for this. > Why is that important? Fundamental mode is not supposed to be used > frequently by Emacs users, so why single out that mode, and why > specifically for this minor mode? Because Fundamental mode is the default for a file with no special name or contents to specify another major mode. And because that minor mode is enabled by default. So a user who visits the file foo.bar gets behavior which apparently is not documented anywhere. Not in the doc string of fundamental-mode, and not in the doc string of electric-indent-mode. So where should it be? > > The doc string also fails to say what, concretely, reindenting does, or even > > what controls what reindenting does. So it needs a lot of improvement. How about adding, "Typically the major mode controls what reindenting does."? -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)