From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough. Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 21:53:03 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20160205125559.GC7727@acm.fritz.box> <20160205215301.GG7727@acm.fritz.box> <87ee1isi8r.fsf@gnus.org> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32678"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: jwiegley@gmail.com, johnw@gnu.org, 22564@debbugs.gnu.org, acm@muc.de, rgm@gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 01 03:54:22 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nkyn0-0008LM-4a for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 03:54:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49760 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nkymy-0004QQ-LF for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 21:54:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52988) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nkymg-0004QF-9P for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 21:54:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:37165) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nkymf-0004uH-RT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 21:54:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkymf-0004OW-Ol for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 21:54:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 01:54:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22564 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 22564-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22564.165136999216832 (code B ref 22564); Sun, 01 May 2022 01:54:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 22564) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2022 01:53:12 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59295 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkyls-0004NQ-B7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 21:53:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59454) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nkylq-0004ND-5L for 22564@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 21:53:10 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:57754) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nkylj-0004li-WB; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 21:53:04 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=KLWc3jdXa4XhqR+wnnm7cDrsFwpnWziNUdxSgf4p2/U=; b=S9V1V/bv7FXf Cc9lnSd4r93fnSYNxjyZt6HGHqre61rmmSYdpSljPt1q9VkNFpf7rAciGK4wkKsUwMKALMdJtvExG ZledC/vEB4lFQsDv7XVVIgveAnvssARycK1guR2BD7ZwbZlvnLDvkBhDaiWni3sfVR1SIWWGycBBG 5a2pUX6eXwyWMkHzjgOUQ6qejOm3XMq3563nCd4oqxrFYiDjBx7P9Fx/0cXSvdeC6nYabbnfP3cY7 SURHIMD406DfJ0p1ohC24FkO8vmT+88PzqlcuRKRN2QAxpzsJKp5LsOK1zV543LY+Fbfwmpl8fqo7 eSPHn60/uGjFh22AFOhVVg==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nkylj-0007LR-Ir; Sat, 30 Apr 2022 21:53:03 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87ee1isi8r.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Wed, 27 Apr 2022 16:39:32 +0200) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:231080 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] The doc string of `electric-indent-mode' is deficient -- it fails to say what it will concretely do in an uncustomized Emacs. All it says is this: When enabled, this reindents whenever the hook ‘electric-indent-functions’ returns non-nil, or if you insert a character from ‘electric-indent-chars’. To see what that concretely does, you have to look at those variables. That's asking too much, for a beginner. This doc string should say where to find the specifics of what it does in Fundametal mode. I looked at them and found that `electric-indent-chars' has TAB (10) in it. However, TAB has a global binding, `indent-for-tab-command'. What, then, does Electric Indent mode alter in Fundamental mode? Does it alter anything? Was there a concrete motive for proposing to disable it in Fundamental mode? We need to help users find out these things. Is there a way, other than by reading electric.el? The doc string also fails to say what, concretely, reindenting does, or even what controls what reindenting does. So it needs a lot of improvement. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)