From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 00:00:44 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> <87tuczdcqo.fsf@bernoul.li> <6ar182selo.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83r182105v.fsf@gnu.org> <83k0drz1jv.fsf@gnu.org> <33A4238A-C948-4A8E-BADB-689142143CED@gnu.org> <875yp5epy2.fsf@bernoul.li> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24611"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: larsi@gnus.org, rgm@gnu.org, p.stephani2@gmail.com, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org To: Jonas Bernoulli Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 25 06:03:14 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nNSl7-0006DG-Of for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 06:03:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53072 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nNSl1-0005ps-SE for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 00:03:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39756) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nNSk2-0005mt-BJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 00:02:10 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:57143) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nNSjy-00017Z-PE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 00:02:04 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nNSjy-00046U-L9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 00:02:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 05:02:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.164576526715689 (code B ref 53316); Fri, 25 Feb 2022 05:02:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2022 05:01:07 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51040 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nNSj5-00044y-GK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 00:01:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60932) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nNSj3-00044M-PA for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 00:01:06 -0500 Original-Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=57176 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nNSin-0000le-KU; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 00:01:00 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=W1EAToOTYCS1JocqJZxatbrJkmSvnf1HxpTci1fdqWA=; b=cK2eNvCilBbm mV27tI1vdeTpoj3DU2sEtEdXaSzDrVbwZtbHTqqUodw07MCy7V1sbDxSN55tscSjFDi/UnYbCHQ1l D5YTZb9EaTde6QAYRwZoIzfImT5V4ylEciPfzQ9MlyFJ15IgLDamJlbRS/yFAmQbNwmjkOabLvzgb IphV9xup1d202KhWWFH/ya+T7324Hl8CT9PQQ6DYEmtilyAMqHGeFocHvsUajEk5cSRxph9Ak1uAD m+hQ/9QeieUORvJ7JBVu3GIs1N1zq0Nfn5NJsVE44C+89Is8Xy32N7i3fMt32xkfiboM32UDtMnmY ExFdDHfqTDN6DK51iM3RBA==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nNSii-0006Tr-4Q; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 00:00:48 -0500 In-Reply-To: <875yp5epy2.fsf@bernoul.li> (message from Jonas Bernoulli on Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:18:45 +0100) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:227614 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > The exporter currently can do this and similar: > =code= => @code{code} > once I am done it will be able to optionally do this and similar: > $var$ => @var{var} That syntax is convenient to use, but hard to extend to cover all the Texinfo markup facilities. There are LOTS of them. > Being asked for a spec is annoying, and so is the assumption that I > won't do the work. Please don't take it personally. It's not about you. Designing the interface is the hardest part of this, and other efforts have ended up in a dead end. What's hard is finding syntax for so many markup constructs. I don't think the simple approach with one punctuation character can handle it. Also, Texinfo markup constructs nest. I have seen systems inspired by markdown that were meant to be used for manuals. Each one handled only a subset of the jobs that Texinfo markup constructs do. The markup approach is so limiting that it doesn't offer much room for syntax for a greater number of constructs. I've found that people tend to implement a subset, and it is easy to find usable syntax for a small number of constructs. But there is no natural way to extend it to do the whole job. In effect, doing this for a subset "first", expecting to add the others later, means a risk of ending up in a dead end. I'm sure you will finish this job, if you start with a plan for handling all the markup constructs. Have you got a list of Texinfo constructs to support? If there is no way Org format can handle the repertoire of constructs that we want for our manuals, we should not use Org format for the source for a manual. We should use Texinfo format. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)