From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#18005: 24.4.50; In Emacs manual, tell users how to enter debugger for `user-error' errors Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 17:54:24 -0400 Message-ID: References: <6261d1cf-2fa0-48a4-a8f0-0727d270c0f2@default> <0ztx6mm464.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1405288513 12303 80.91.229.3 (13 Jul 2014 21:55:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 21:55:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 18005@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 13 23:55:08 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1X6Rjf-0005Ks-Tv for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2014 23:55:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53862 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X6Rjf-0006Cr-GJ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2014 17:55:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48150) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X6Rjc-0006BP-4C for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2014 17:55:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X6Rjb-00050g-BV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2014 17:55:04 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:58677) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X6Rjb-00050H-8o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2014 17:55:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1X6Rja-00070i-OP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2014 17:55:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 21:55:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 18005 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 18005-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B18005.140528847126870 (code B ref 18005); Sun, 13 Jul 2014 21:55:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 18005) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jul 2014 21:54:31 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53943 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1X6Rj5-0006zJ-1M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2014 17:54:31 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:50224 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1X6Rj0-0006z3-Ft for 18005@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2014 17:54:27 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X6Riy-0004mT-2h; Sun, 13 Jul 2014 17:54:24 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 12 Jul 2014 19:41:13 -0700 (PDT)) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:91515 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] "The whole point" should be to _let_ users not be bothered entering the debugger for uninteresting errors. That's reasonable behavior. *Enabling* that behavior is positive. Forcing it would be counterproductive, as is not making clear what it is that controls it. I agree. Not to mention the fact that what constitutes an "uninteresting error" is not something fixed once and for all for everyone. It can change, depending on the context. A user might well want to take a look under the covers using the debugger in some context. (The user who just now asked how to do it, for instance.) I have several times wanted to enter the debugger because a program triggered one of these errors which usually is caused by bad user input. So I used the feature to enable that. There should continue to be a convenient feature to enable that. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call.