From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#2975: texinfo-master-menu and emacs.texi Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 07:20:39 -0500 Message-ID: References: <20191.12232.556454.551166@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20191.48632.665251.448872@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20191.55423.572257.75919@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <877h27gxh2.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1323346895 18327 80.91.229.12 (8 Dec 2011 12:21:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 12:21:35 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 2975@debbugs.gnu.org, winkler@gnu.org, Karl Berry To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 08 13:21:29 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RYcyf-0003Mj-0n for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 13:21:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44166 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RYcye-0005mx-8B for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 07:21:28 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:54059) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RYcyW-0005lz-D8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 07:21:25 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RYcyQ-0000Eb-KU for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 07:21:20 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:57758) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RYcyQ-0000EX-Hl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 07:21:14 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RYczC-000461-GV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 07:22:03 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 12:22:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 2975 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 2975-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B2975.132334689515702 (code B ref 2975); Thu, 08 Dec 2011 12:22:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 2975) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Dec 2011 12:21:35 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RYcyj-00045B-Nc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 07:21:34 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RYcyf-000452-3L for 2975@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 07:21:31 -0500 Original-Received: from eliz by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RYcxr-0002GW-6k; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 07:20:39 -0500 In-reply-to: <877h27gxh2.fsf@gmail.com> (message from =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= on Thu, 08 Dec 2011 11:38:01 +0100) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 07:22:02 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:54809 Archived-At: > From: Štěpán Němec > Cc: "Roland Winkler" , 2975@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 11:38:01 +0100 > > On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 07:17:40 +0100 > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> > Maybe the better course here is to deprecate it, seeing how noone seems > >> > interested in fixing it (if it can be fixed). > > > > Define "fixed". Which of the current misfeatures are urgent to fix? > > I'd say the fact that OT1H `texinfo-master-menu' is recommended as "the > primary command" in the Texinfo manual (info "(texinfo)Updating Commands"), > and OTOH it (sometimes?) breaks things, is a rather urgent-to-be-fixed > misfeature. The simplest fix would be to remove the updating of the @node lines. Would anyone object? Karl? > I think it's very important that there is a clear recipe for maintaining > Texinfo documentation which people not interested in the details or > implementation of Texinfo (== the vast majority of Texinfo writers) can > easily find and go by. That is a separate and non-trivial project. Texinfo Mode has a lot of commands, some of which cater to specific workflows and organizations of manuals. Making a coherent set of instructions for people who are "not interested in the details" is not an easy task. It certainly doesn't affect only Emacs. However, since this discussion _is_ in the context of Emacs, let me say this: FWIW, most changes I do in the Emacs docs do not justify using any of the commands discussed in this bug report and in the parallel thread on emacs-devel. I just make the changes by hand. I believe others do that as well. There are rare situations when I use the commands discussed here, typically close to a release when there's a need to make sure every menu is up to date. E.g., I didn't even remember the existence of texinfo-multiple-files-update until I bumped into a comment in emacs.texi, although I myself added that comment several years ago. I guess I'm saying that the importance of these commands in the context of maintaining Emacs documentation is somewhat exaggerated in this thread, to say the least ;-)