From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard M Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#2473: usability issues on emacs's describe-mode Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:33:29 -0500 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: rms@gnu.org, 2473@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1235778236 11108 80.91.229.12 (27 Feb 2009 23:43:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 23:43:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: xah@xahlee.org, 2473@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 28 00:45:12 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LdCOG-0007h1-0T for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 00:45:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46057 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LdCMu-0006p4-Sm for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:43:48 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LdCMq-0006nD-Bz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:43:44 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LdCMo-0006mC-Da for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:43:43 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=42010 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LdCMn-0006m6-SP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:43:41 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:34195) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LdCMn-0007Xf-4O for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:43:41 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n1RNhc6a014193; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:43:38 -0800 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id n1RNe6kZ012964; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:40:06 -0800 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: Richard M Stallman Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 23:40:06 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 2473 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 2473-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B2473.123577775312180 (code B ref 2473); Fri, 27 Feb 2009 23:40:06 +0000 Original-Received: (at 2473) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Feb 2009 23:35:53 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n1RNZnhL012168 for <2473@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:35:51 -0800 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LdCCv-0000nS-Gv; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:33:29 -0500 In-reply-to: (message from Eli Zaretskii on Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:04:01 +0200) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:43:43 -0500 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:25813 Archived-At: I see a 3rd way: make the buffer present an expandable list of modes, starting with just 2 items: the current major modes and "minor modes", e.g. similar to what we do in Speedbar, or maybe in Outline Mode (under "Hide Sublevels"). In ASCII art: + Major Mode: RMAIL Mode + Minor Modes Using hiding is a good idea -- thanks. I think that partcular way would be inconvenient. Specifically, it would be a hassle to initially hide the major mode documentation. That is what users most often want to see; making them type a command to expose it would be a gratuitous hassle. So I suggest putting the partly-hidden minor mode list first, followed by the totally visible major mode documentation.