From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: Re: emacs -nw hangs on redirect Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 20:01:29 -0500 Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1068167762 17915 80.91.224.253 (7 Nov 2003 01:16:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 01:16:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: gnu-emacs-bug@moderators.isc.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 07 02:16:00 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AHvEG-0001hL-00 for ; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 02:16:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AHvCY-0003HB-Iv for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 20:14:14 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AHv9K-00089r-Lh for bug-gnu-emacs@prep.ai.mit.edu; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 20:10:54 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AHv8m-0007lO-RB for bug-gnu-emacs@prep.ai.mit.edu; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 20:10:52 -0500 Original-Received: from [216.168.1.22] (helo=trinity.supernews.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.24) id 1AHv72-00071n-Pr for bug-gnu-emacs@prep.ai.mit.edu; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 20:08:32 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]:56085) by trinity.supernews.net with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHv6n-000FrT-Jm for gnu-emacs-bug@moderators.isc.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 01:08:17 +0000 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.24) id 1AHv0D-0007Vk-G8; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 20:01:29 -0500 Original-To: David Kastrup In-reply-to: (message from David Kastrup on 05 Nov 2003 02:44:52 +0100) X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:6107 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.bugs:6107 Actually, if I remember correctly, there are non-GNU environments for Linux available too (certainly for some embedded systems, and I think there was even a proof-of-concept BSD flavor system with a Linux kernel). But it would appear unlikely that he was using one of those. GNU is not an "environment for Linux". GNU is an operating system which we began developing in 1984. Linux is a kernel that came along many years later and is typically used together with GNU. It is possible to use Linux without the GNU system, but then you don't have a Unix-like operating system, just a kernel. That is only done in embedded systems. > When you call the entire system "Linux", you give the system's > principal developers none of the credit. I would not go as far as to claim the kernel and system utility developers are not also principal developers of the system. And I don't think that he was intending to give _anybody_ credit just by trying to specify his system. I would expect he had no intentions about it one way or the other, and was simply following the usage he had seen elsewhere. But intentions aside, it's a fact that calling the whole system Linux gives the credit for the whole system to someone who came along seven years after we (the GNU Project) started it. You pointed out that one sentence in my message was not entirely clear: > And yet here you are asking us to help you out. Please start > treating us right. In that context, "us" refers to the developers of the GNU system, which includes the developers of GNU Emacs and those of many other GNU programs. Thanks.