From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Reuben Thomas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#7741: 23.2.91; Please allow emacs to run emacsclient Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 18:44:38 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87r5d3z8wy.fsf@sc3d.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1309801690 19691 80.91.229.12 (4 Jul 2011 17:48:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 17:48:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 7741@debbugs.gnu.org To: Juanma Barranquero Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 04 19:48:05 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdnFY-0007Vy-22 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 19:48:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46021 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QdnFW-00050W-JZ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 13:47:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:36163) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QdnCl-0004Gm-21 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 13:45:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QdnCh-0006VC-Jy for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 13:45:06 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:38206) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QdnCh-0006V7-8b for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 13:45:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdnCg-0008Gf-D7; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 13:45:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Reuben Thomas Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 17:45:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7741 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 7741-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B7741.130980148831725 (code B ref 7741); Mon, 04 Jul 2011 17:45:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 7741) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jul 2011 17:44:48 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdnCR-0008Fe-NN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 13:44:48 -0400 Original-Received: from exprod7og115.obsmtp.com ([64.18.2.217]) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdnCP-0008FP-Gk for 7741@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 13:44:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pz0-f47.google.com ([209.85.210.47]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob115.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKThH8B97+IqcCvpKyU6rCfaC6tvRJ4Qm/@postini.com; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 10:44:45 PDT Original-Received: by pzk36 with SMTP id 36so3005330pzk.20 for <7741@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 10:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.143.60.1 with SMTP id n1mr2873432wfk.331.1309801478866; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 10:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.142.226.19 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Jul 2011 10:44:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 13:45:02 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:47970 Archived-At: On 4 July 2011 18:32, Juanma Barranquero wrote: > On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 18:23, Reuben Thomas wrote: > >> it seems worth >> pursuing making things simpler. Here, I'm after a solution that means >> that one can set EDITOR=3Demacs, and it will just DTRT, i.e. start Emacs >> if not already started, or use emacsclient otherwise. > > Simpler than using emacsclient -a "" or the emacs daemon? Exactly. > But what you're talking aboutis =A0saving a few keystrokes > once... Exactly. > It is > possible to use Emacs out of the box, but even users without time or > expertise will have to set up more than that to make effective use of > Emacs, I think. Exactly, that is the problem. > Doesn't seem worth the trouble to me, but that's just MHO. It is certainly worth the trouble. Emacs is an extremely powerful editor with an amazing wealth of functionality. In recent years there has been some excellent work on making more of this work out of the box, but far too much is still left untapped by most users. I am a constant and moderately advanced user of Emacs, but there are many exciting and potentially useful features I have never even tried simply because I have not the time to configure them. Working out how to activate powerful new features out of the box without either confusing new users or annoying existing users is often tricky, but once a feature has been introduced and found useful, it's pretty much an essential step in order to make it widely available. As an example, look how many users still complain of Emacs's "lack" of features found in other IDEs. Actually, many of these features are available in Emacs, but they take time to set up. This means that many users don't get to see them, and, just as important, the packages themselves don't get the feedback or polish they deserve. One example is CEDET, whose code comprehension and refactoring capabilities I've tried to use more than once, but have always come up against minor bugs which made it unusable for me. Another is nXhtml, which I use despite some annoying minor bugs (fortunately for my use they are mostly cosmetic), thanks to significant one-to-one help from the author. It would be unfair of me not to point out that Emacs is much better in this regard than it was a few years ago (I remember when even syntax coloring was off by default!), but it still suffers from configurationitis worse than any other program I use regularly, and unfortunately there is still a mentality of "that can be fixed by adding an option". There are far too many options! --=20 http://rrt.sc3d.org