From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Josh Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16155: 24.3.50; Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 21:01:38 -0800 Message-ID: References: <749544c4-49e7-462f-b64c-26725cf35a59@default> <13d75185-288f-4b71-bb80-e5af13a7f8c6@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1387602192 30162 80.91.229.3 (21 Dec 2013 05:03:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 05:03:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: gnu-emacs-bug@moderators.isc.org, Alan Mackenzie , rms@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 21 06:03:16 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VuEiZ-00063k-FR for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 06:03:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52833 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VuEiZ-000552-3B for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:82309 Archived-At: On Dec 17, 2013 4:54 PM, "Drew Adams" wrote: > > > > And yet none of that data (however flakey or incomplete) was > > > considered in deciding to make this change in default behavior. > > > > To be fair, this was debated at some length[0] and presumably > > decided a couple of months ago, well before that data became > > available. > > > > [0] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-10/msg00407.html > > "To be fair", I already said that this was decided before > that poll was taken. That was the main point: it was decided > without benefit of any poll or automatically gathered data. Ah, I incorrectly concluded from the passage I quoted that you believed that the decision had been made after the data had been collected. > I feel somewhat more strongly that the process followed is > not the best one (insufficient attention to users - and not > just emacs-devel readers). Decisions that are contrary to the majority opinion, whether it be of contributors or users or both, don't bother me much when they're transparent and driven by ethical, legal, or other considerations that demand a particular course of action, for example Richard's decision to stick with Bazaar by virtue of its status as a GNU project. Often, though, there is no such transparency and no overriding considerations are stated, even upon request, and to me this unwillingness to engage substantively with others during the process of making such decisions suggests that our involvement is unwelcome.