From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Nima Aryan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#28339: 25.2; Emacs shows ZWNJ character (Zero Width non-Joiner) as Space Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2017 04:05:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83y3phmca8.fsf@gnu.org> <877ewzsa0m.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045f69989f7bf50559469e84" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1505534779 11701 195.159.176.226 (16 Sep 2017 04:06:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2017 04:06:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 28339@debbugs.gnu.org To: handa , Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 16 06:06:12 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dt4Mt-0002gf-Q2 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Fri, 15 Sep 2017 21:05:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <877ewzsa0m.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:136997 Archived-At: --f403045f69989f7bf50559469e84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If Unicode does not have a rule of ZWNJ handing, to delete ZWNJ, how a user know which to type; C-d or BS? And while doing cut&paste repeatedly, are there any chance of having the second and third lines of the attached file? They have two and three consecutive ZWNJ. How does a user notice such a (perhaps incorrect) situation? As a user, I=E2=80=99ve been in this situation before and it simply doesn= =E2=80=99t have any effect on the user and the user simply can=E2=80=99t figure it out (unl= ess represent ZWNJ as something else). This is why ZWNJ-as-Thin is a workaround hack and not a solution. ZWNJ takes no space it=E2=80=99s like 3x0=3D0. To = delete, some editors like Gedit and many more simply take any number of consequent ZWNJs as one. I=E2=80=99ve seen some which count each ZWNJ and the user hav= e to delete each to reach the character before. On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 6:03 AM handa handa@gnu.org wrote: In article <83y3phmca8.fsf@gnu.org>, Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > > Each Arabic character constitutes a grapheme cluster. Then, for the > > > sequence "0646 0645 06CC 200C 0634 0648 062F", to which neighboring > should > > > 200C belongs to? Does Unicode define it? > > > I don't think Unicode defines that, but I thought the shaping engine > > gives us back glyphs that don't include ZWNJ itself. Evidently, > > that's not true, which I find strange. > > If ZWNJ is WITHIN a grapheme cluster (i.e. not at the edges > of the cluster), the m17n lib does not return ZWNJ glyph. > > > > Anyway, is it convenient or inconvenient to be able to edit ZWNJ > directly? > > > It's convenient. But we already support deletion of composed > > characters, so I didn't think it mattered. > > If Unicode does not have a rule of ZWNJ handing, to delete ZWNJ, how a > user know which to type; C-d or BS? And while doing cut&paste > repeatedly, are there any chance of having the second and third lines of > the attached file? They have two and three consecutive ZWNJ. How does > a user notice such a (perhaps incorrect) situation? > > --- > K. Handa > handa@gnu.org > > =E2=80=8B --f403045f69989f7bf50559469e84 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

If Unicode does not have a rule= of ZWNJ handing, to delete ZWNJ, how a user know which to type; C-d or BS?= And while doing cut&paste repeatedly, are there any chance of having = the second and third lines of the attached file? They have two and three c= onsecutive ZWNJ. How does a user notice such a (perhaps incorrect) situati= on?

As a user, I=E2=80=99ve been in= this situation before and it simply doesn=E2=80=99t have any effect on the= user and the user simply can=E2=80=99t figure it out (unless represent ZWN= J as something else). This is why ZWNJ-as-Thin is a= workaround hack and not a solution. ZWNJ takes no space it=E2=80=99s like = 3x0=3D0. To delete, some editors like Gedit and man= y more simply take any number of consequent ZWNJs as one. I=E2=80=99ve seen= some which count each ZWNJ and the user have to delete each to reach the c= haracter before.

On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 6:03 AM= handa handa@gnu.org wrote:

In article <83y3phmca8.fsf@gnu.org&= gt;, Eli Zaretskii <el= iz@gnu.org> writes:

> > Each Arabic character constitutes a grapheme cluster.=C2=A0 Then,= for the
> > sequence "0646 0645 06CC 200C 0634 0648 062F", to which= neighboring should
> > 200C belongs to?=C2=A0 Does Unicode define it?

> I don't think Unicode defines that, but I thought the shaping engi= ne
> gives us back glyphs that don't include ZWNJ itself.=C2=A0 Evident= ly,
> that's not true, which I find strange.

If ZWNJ is WITHIN a grapheme cluster (i.e. not at the edges
of the cluster), the m17n lib does not return ZWNJ glyph.

> > Anyway, is it convenient or inconvenient to be able to edit ZWNJ = directly?

> It's convenient.=C2=A0 But we already support deletion of composed=
> characters, so I didn't think it mattered.

If Unicode does not have a rule of ZWNJ handing, to delete ZWNJ, how a
user know which to type; C-d or BS?=C2=A0 And while doing cut&paste
repeatedly, are there any chance of having the second and third lines of the attached file?=C2=A0 They have two and three consecutive ZWNJ.=C2=A0 Ho= w does
a user notice such a (perhaps incorrect) situation?

---
K. Handa
handa@gnu.org

=E2=80=8B
--f403045f69989f7bf50559469e84--