From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sebastian Wiesner Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#14704: 24.3.50; cl-lib breaks built-in Emacs version Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 20:57:04 +0200 Message-ID: References: <837ghjjqvj.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1372100295 32519 80.91.229.3 (24 Jun 2013 18:58:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 18:58:15 +0000 (UTC) Cc: lekktu@gmail.com, 14704@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 24 20:58:15 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBxq-0002bl-Hs for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 20:58:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60478 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBxq-0001hE-9V for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:58:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55954) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBxl-0001eR-CM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:58:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBxj-0006nd-P8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:58:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:44708) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBxj-0006nZ-MP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:58:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBxi-0007l5-1I for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:58:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Sebastian Wiesner Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 18:58:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14704 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 14704-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14704.137210023429722 (code B ref 14704); Mon, 24 Jun 2013 18:58:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 14704) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jun 2013 18:57:14 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39024 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBwv-0007jD-1E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:57:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qc0-f181.google.com ([209.85.216.181]:47788) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBws-0007ir-8u for 14704@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:57:10 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qc0-f181.google.com with SMTP id u12so6532180qcx.26 for <14704@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 11:57:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sX/pAsGDlmHlnvbW9x0G92DQlv9+vZ9Bsbo+Itd0FXE=; b=fu15n9gbUbM8Nu+CkDWZhINCJCcNbQ/+H5c+ePlJGrfVgMKDWGfd8x71J5oXcNjVWc BZgC28xZWayRkq+d5DkTuK95n+5B+ceAWXha8NZNdImapF6lfGTWmfpXtzS2R+Fp5+lZ n669Rie/xPMudsdwkz7rem3Q5qLT4r4EBpunWbF2Sfs6y2kNOBYxqM1GDJvF6puDU6W0 zqLGtEFqzNzY33JguAa9pGwpxLi1U/+ZLSJmu6rpfjsLnkHmjV1z0yAaD3XUTHws2yxg uAjEwBgG/wkXfpP0OEVEeqTIQEUvyCRvw0spT1lz9IlKxrMy6ZlRSrD0ldCkiSsROVDy Czeg== X-Received: by 10.224.25.76 with SMTP id y12mr26548439qab.45.1372100224237; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 11:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.224.178.193 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 11:57:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <837ghjjqvj.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:75526 Archived-At: 2013/6/24 Eli Zaretskii : >> Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 20:26:27 +0200 >> From: Sebastian Wiesner >> Cc: 14704@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> I did neither scream nor demand, but I actually expected you to apply >> care and attention to your work. I write tests for my own code, and I >> run them, and I expected you to do so as well. I see now, that you do >> not, which is embarrassing to you and very ignorant towards your >> users. > > Out of fairness, you found 3 bugs in a single 1700-line package, and > made very far-fetching conclusions ("Don't you test your code?!") out > of that. These three bugs weren't just stupid forgotten corner cases in some remote and obscure feature that none uses. They broke an essential command=E2=80=94which worked well before=E2=80=94in a very obvious and very= bad way. These bugs should have been caught by testing before making a commit. But they weren't, so in this specific case, I think I can quite legitimately conclude that these specific changes were not tested at all, or only very carelessly. I understand that package.el is being refactored currently, but that isn't an excuse imho. On the contrary, every software development course teaches about making refactorings in a separate branch and never without unit tests. But I admit that I should not have generalized this statement, and I apologize to you and to everyone else whom I offended. > If all that code were not tested at all, it would never have worked at al= l. It is tested, for sure, but probably less by you, and more by your users.