From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sebastian Wiesner Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#14704: 24.3.50; cl-lib breaks built-in Emacs version Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 20:26:27 +0200 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1372098430 11590 80.91.229.3 (24 Jun 2013 18:27:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 18:27:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 14704@debbugs.gnu.org To: Juanma Barranquero Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 24 20:27:10 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBTo-00029Y-6s for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 20:27:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48056 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBTn-0000J6-Ps for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:27:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46126) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBTj-0000Ik-Oz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:27:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBTi-0003HH-RV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:27:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:44687) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBTi-0003HD-Np for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:27:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBTi-0006Og-CN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:27:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Sebastian Wiesner Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 18:27:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14704 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 14704-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14704.137209839624547 (code B ref 14704); Mon, 24 Jun 2013 18:27:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 14704) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jun 2013 18:26:36 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39003 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBTH-0006No-Qd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:26:36 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qc0-f172.google.com ([209.85.216.172]:41308) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBTF-0006NR-EX for 14704@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:26:34 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qc0-f172.google.com with SMTP id j10so6623069qcx.31 for <14704@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 11:26:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Q4yNxOmobKjWS+ttOPmBQJsEIQSK4zRdTcsmopQ70bs=; b=ZCY8XGAMnAtiI2CZ0rhr0Fez19HNsFIGKYb5+ZTfakUqg312TfgcL/EWOXc0fXRTbI b2GKKf3SK4KIVEBVEoFL5BSvoXftbGaZyy0BsC8WUSchI2GKKtY1DGOdD3VVB51l2MhM +0/gCykPEb56BU871VlKb+wi6of9xJWPnXIt/lsUYwrttNkFcta2CCaLIiK1BL0xst5s 9haH7LqCrwGUv08Ju2zjQr778O/5RGHaeXQ0YxrbfRiEnloNJlkVhB6r4iyRqLdy1GWK tyyvL6/kJEwrYY0ZRl9aYtm6g3p90s5AcgjFzRh9MEokP2GH+eOV1m4MG5j8gfOvmO1J GHFw== X-Received: by 10.49.48.112 with SMTP id k16mr10337818qen.43.1372098388013; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 11:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.224.178.193 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 11:26:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:75523 Archived-At: 2013/6/24 Juanma Barranquero : > On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Sebastian Wiesner = wrote: > >> Who would test your code then before releases if not those who compile >> from trunk? You developers obviously don't=E2=80=A6 and what is worse,= you >> apparently do even *care*. > > Yes, users (and developers) test it. Users file bug reports. Sometimes > they offer a patch, often they don't. That's fine and good. Users > don't usually come screaming and demanding. If I were a usual user, I would just have gone back to a release as you said. After all, your bugs and your lack of software testing are not my problem in the end. But instead I did you work: I debugged the problem, found the cause, and reported it. I am sorry that I did not provide a patch right away, but I am unfamiliar with your code base, and have not signed any copyright papers and no intention whatsoever of doing so. I doubt that any patch of mine would have been accepted. I did neither scream nor demand, but I actually expected you to apply care and attention to your work. I write tests for my own code, and I run them, and I expected you to do so as well. I see now, that you do not, which is embarrassing to you and very ignorant towards your users. By not writing or running tests for *your* code you have wasted *my* time. That is what I call =E2=80=9Crude=E2=80=9D. >> These three bugs I found are so blatantly obvious and so severe that >> even the most sloppy manual testing, let alone unit testing, would >> have revealed them, but all you have to say to such a bad failure is >> =E2=80=9CBoy, this is trunk, go home to mama, and play with old releases= =E2=80=9D?! > > No, more like "go home to mama and ask her again about good manners". Fine, let's go home than. I'll ask ma about good manners, and you'll ask your high school teacher about software testing. We'll see who of us learns more on this trip=E2=80=A6