From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#62720: 29.0.60; Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 20:46:02 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87a5zj2vfo.fsf@gmail.com> <875ya1tdwf.fsf@posteo.net> <83edop6sdy.fsf@gnu.org> <831qkp6o0i.fsf@gnu.org> <83wn2h5825.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2gkhzr.fsf@posteo.net> <83cz485oxi.fsf@gnu.org> <87leiwdyff.fsf@posteo.net> <834jpk5hih.fsf@gnu.org> <871qkom3fj.fsf@posteo.net> <83mt3b4yfc.fsf@gnu.org> <87edonlsxi.fsf@posteo.net> <83jzyf4vzb.fsf@gnu.org> <871qknllkj.fsf@posteo.net> <83fs934pjf.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2fk47y.fsf@posteo.net> <83sfd2g2ek.fsf@gnu.org> <875y9yfxrr.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1muefks.fsf@gmail.com> <834jpifizy.fsf@gnu.org> <83y1mue1qi.fsf@gnu.org> <83sfd2e01f.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15581"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 62720@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, philipk@posteo.net, dmitry@gutov.dev, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, larsi@gnus.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 14 21:45:27 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pnPMM-0003oO-JD for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 21:45:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnPLz-0008Sq-9t; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 15:45:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnPLy-0008Si-LF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 15:45:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnPLy-0006BT-DK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 15:45:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnPLx-0008T7-OX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 15:45:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 19:45:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62720 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 62720-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62720.168150145432485 (code B ref 62720); Fri, 14 Apr 2023 19:45:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 62720) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Apr 2023 19:44:14 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47759 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnPLB-0008Rt-ST for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 15:44:14 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ot1-f45.google.com ([209.85.210.45]:42875) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnPLA-0008Rg-6j for 62720@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 15:44:12 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ot1-f45.google.com with SMTP id bu14-20020a0568300d0e00b0069fab3f4cafso9298547otb.9 for <62720@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:44:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1681501446; x=1684093446; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=CfeJ8LtGbtpxB6iyHfFvgQwWA7jR6nZtGnHICCpvdpA=; b=lo5oalqs+36A6t9AKh7mlr9Gtd/X+QIn8kmZs8W2CX35Bk8MyzbbtJpQaueYQS705/ Ai3fI60FGscODDLkAClkRdVBluaqLwqsQiHo8tdLdZnNVVvlpW4hMWQFRTp8J/axtiQO Nj6uFylMnbdsdifQ21Vf2Nx9r7zwhyyuhdY9ON3iRINf95cJ4ry2qDixaQQu5x244XpK n6BxPbUWV1PqO/M9ZRSpL7PVhIVBg1YvK4mrnSay9trp8c2Nt4lRABHjxGgCxr7frv6U OH0euCU5PcNVEwFmBdcOcycdXjNw5V4Dz/XF9IVHkXjCuCIghiInHFNKiCaWc7per3VF JmTw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681501446; x=1684093446; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=CfeJ8LtGbtpxB6iyHfFvgQwWA7jR6nZtGnHICCpvdpA=; b=XEDhLFRbCOSYyWwfafb8QXCXPIqBSfa3Z8+T05fh3tSnxPJVJokqdUvZd1NuW1R5C+ aQdrGRWKtfOzoSqgsjfRvbvjeL9sk6gGZgikyhrVaPDmr/GVY3UoSQWlkLLn3r1vmngA 1COBA5v8Esbb8Jpzx8gykhOTD81C+OnNxlQSmxUz+kbR6x/kNRKRh2R8LH0Rqq4TE0GO Z0b5HwtZWZht/AhFn9bPo6z9hwMbx5D6GAUT1pIBXRV5e1ynyUDL1+pgsCixdMmXVyF3 A5f89tXdijASLn2i3nem58xUvwPTz6rBhItk7M2W9WmbNoGrKzt00IUcVZZGQPFTJSqL 3e0A== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9f82w0Gz/YXvx5ub0BrEFaK21yRcWIk+BTyULPQHKHrzNuTyP0J /g+pYdP1lT+WZP5LlInS7dWRUaWq2DZPhoFucA8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350a4aGnrE8xzSdiHpkmAQBmuNDExY5BMRomxX2B1bbtRECEv3FWrD62sP3sgmXN9F5j7t9rqOH9WXQ73CmoMDRY= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:6217:0:b0:6a4:23d0:2b94 with SMTP id g23-20020a9d6217000000b006a423d02b94mr1797059otj.4.1681501446419; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:44:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83sfd2e01f.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:259973 Archived-At: On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 8:28=E2=80=AFPM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > From: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora > > Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 20:20:20 +0100 > > Cc: dmitry@gutov.dev, rpluim@gmail.com, philipk@posteo.net, > > 62720@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca > > > > On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 7:51=E2=80=AFPM Eli Zaretskii wr= ote: > > > > The Eglot release 1.14 is not as stable as 1.12.29. It has new features= . > > Also a recent bugfix in commit a74403adda0 is quite complex and > > I'm cautiously waiting for feedback. Other simple bugfixes have > > been backported. > > So you don't recommend that users who want a stable Eglot upgrade to > 1.14? Depends on how "stable" they want it and how badly they want new features. > If so, why is it a problem that package-install by default > doesn't update built-in packages? Users who want the cutting edge of > Eglot, and don't mind some instability, can always switch to the > master branch of Emacs, where we are free to change package-install to > upgrade core packages by default. Users don't just switch to the master branch of Emacs. Many just can't because of enterprise complications, or just difficulty of compilatio= n. I've worked in companies using Emacs (some of them exclusively!!) for 20 years. Most users are two, sometimes, three Emacs releases behind. They are not remotely interested in updating. "IT doesn't like it". "It's not the official". "This one is just fine". But if a colleague goes to their workstation and shows them M-x package-install RET very-fancy-nice-thing or sends them a super-fancy init.el they will take it no problem, and buy you coffee and rave about it. I can't be the only one who has experienced this :-) > > But if someone types M-x install-something they should get what > > they ask for. If they want to be 100% safe, they just shouldn't > > invoke commands that download, compile and evaluate code. > > The logic should be consistent. Emacs 29 is the stable branch of > Emacs, so it should come with the latest stable Eglot. If that is > Eglot 1.12.29, then the fact that package-install won't upgrade it to > 1.14 is consistent with the stability of Eglot's versions. If, OTOH, > you think that it's imperative to allow _all_ users of Eglot with > Emacs 29 to upgrade to Eglot 1.14 (and 1.15, 1.16, etc., when those > become available), then we should release Emacs 29 with 1.14. I think it's imperative to _allow_ -- as you say -- and also and to _make easy_. More importantly, and to the point, to _make it as easy as it was in Emacs 26, 27 and 28_. But I'd prefer not to force Eglot 1.14 (or likely 1.15/1.16 by the time i expect the final RCs to be around). > > Notwithstanding this personal opinion, I underline again that > > it _is_ possible to craft a simple, emacs-29-safe modification, > > to the package-install function that is even more cautious to > > download certain types of things. > > Philip presented such a safe modification, and we are in the final > stages of discussing its details, before it will be installed. So > yes, it is possible. As I've explained to Philip, the big drawback of that -- undoubtedly safe -- modification is that it is not compatible to user's configurations that have a (use-package 'eglot) or a (package-install 'eglot) in them. Jo=C3=A3o