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posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28032"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 50959@debbugs.gnu.org To: Phil Sainty Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 02 16:18:20 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mWfqG-000756-9X for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 16:18:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59322 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWfqF-00087T-CL for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 10:18:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45722) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWfpx-00084T-V9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 10:18:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:48605) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWfpx-00056N-Ne for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; 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Sat, 02 Oct 2021 10:17:44 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-f173.google.com with SMTP id s16so10593167pfk.0 for <50959@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 07:17:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qU7ENWczmitgjYUQV3BEVE6K5HksUHVSwkURHwS5zhs=; b=a0o6ZbksLUGpZbUE5/oIDApTk/KUs1oQ3PntkZ4KZSz3mXGap0ditDQFb7RmE3oL7H zy0EYA9I3M3Zi78zhNJY71lvt6FaeHddRVR+YpqrTh3yiskXH1owQnoYX4yVaw6r4zs/ jnY6PCemYbbFP/ZBv6zIllj1v/yS5pgD9QRiV9wvcHB7DXSdtOTayerQmveaIzRJSskV c5Vih61rS21io5Qo2ZCy60dSDpuLRYS3hi6PZ9ip4KGKifofqU8ISHq+8W8xyWF/dQIq qMeNar+Zp/F7iYqBV3+f8ZsDHQMp7iYspTIv3jThviQCCjpso4rzROu8Eo0sEr0Obwzi DXpA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qU7ENWczmitgjYUQV3BEVE6K5HksUHVSwkURHwS5zhs=; b=io8gG23DOJiygRLtQXJtHmkQ/n+vg8D4m3wo1pP+PgEv1Co9VK4JK4zrppTp4gbWX0 NRBOaY+g8rdX6k0CH2WCWvuIUtp3anyTeTjy/66DF7SgcEDjRusmefd1URmnHO3qEVlr 2/TMPuhFQW0WaUMMHVPNqFFiyx+KlHo38A2O8luNTNOWJHiSEm7FL8CmeTuZWL/voBEV bVr2+QeYqgl2APd1nhwHQJaN9YG8uNg/noOnR5U+JWlXozEEHotuotJg80tm6kgJNJzX s3SOBk7DK/Agjp6KpHQ+x10L9NW3aluux89kMr+lQIGvKX+ItssyHbxRYrrFQPxPnob+ s+zA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532KPj/HFPZ0psrAcgx7TUhOqBe8cmz59VR41la5LjP/0HG8CvOn rvYH250EQPhDCQjEET9VeRNM/+VFJoy8Sg0iIZo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxBXJjwzDuGnYLQv2Jc0U6C2gq7kJh/yZmeSlY21fWo2LJQtzE6tN88zFXk0nCauuZSy0BGU2y46Qd2UIN0S5c= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:24d0:b0:448:29d1:518f with SMTP id d16-20020a056a0024d000b0044829d1518fmr16713940pfv.72.1633184258125; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 07:17:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1c00feac3e4d37ba13502ee7754084a4@webmail.orcon.net.nz> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:216154 Archived-At: On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 1:37 PM Phil Sainty wrote: > > On 2021-10-03 01:10, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Let me translate: is "C-h" command the only use case you have in mind > > where you saw a problem with shorthands? If there are others, and > > they involve Emacs's internal functionalities (as opposed to, say, > > searching with Grep or some other text-oriented tool), please describe > > them. > > I think it's literally anything that hasn't has custom support added > as part of the shorthands feature? > > E.g.: > > * describe-function|-variable|-face|-symbol > * apropos|-command|-variable|-user-option|-symbol > * customize-apropos|-face|-variable|-option > * info-lookup-symbol > * execute-extended-command > * anything using read-command|-variable|-face-name > * anything using these interactive codes: > > a -- Function name: symbol with a function definition. > C -- Command name: symbol with interactive function definition. > This skips events that are integers or symbols. > S -- Any symbol. > v -- Variable name: symbol that is =E2=80=98custom-variable-p=E2=80=99. > > etc, etc... > > Basically everything? As it is clear, that's not the case. These things have and will always deal with the global table of symbols obarray. These commands operate on symbols. Shorthands are _not_ symbols! They are not! They are a textual indirection to symbols, which -- as the manual explained long before I touc= hed it -- are objects composed of four things, blablabla. Maybe this helps you think: it's just like (intern (concat "foo" "bar")) is another type of indirection to a symbol. A run-time indirection. Shorthands are read-time indirections. So: when the commands you reference are invoked in the buffer where shorthands exist with point on the shorthand you which to describe, lookup,= etc all those functions and the interactive codes do the right thing. What is = that? They follow the indirection to the symbol and operate on the symbol, as they always have. If you find some case where they DON'T follow this indirection, where they clearly COULD reasonably follow it then that is a bug and or feature request for shorthands. But you should explain also why think it is reasonable. Consider how SLIME= (and also proprietary Common Lisp IDE's, I think) have dealt with this issue (se= arch "package local nicknames" in your favourite search engine). Soon I will propose that we font-lock shorthands specially (or at least mak= e it optional). That should be easy to do, and should, in my opinion, extinguis= h at least some of your anguish. Jo=C3=A3o