From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Corwin Brust Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#73812: 30.0.91; ERC 5.6.0.30.1: Customizing erc-modules loads ERC when starting Emacs Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2024 21:37:06 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87o73mgjk3.fsf@neverwas.me> <865xptsh6f.fsf@gnu.org> <87h69ddz5l.fsf@neverwas.me> <86bjzhopaz.fsf@gnu.org> <87ttd947pg.fsf@neverwas.me> <87ed3z1tut.fsf@neverwas.me> <87cyjepihk.fsf@neverwas.me> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8195"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 73812@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Andrea Corallo , emacs-erc@gnu.org, "J.P." To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 02 03:38:29 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1t7421-00021w-4S for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2024 03:38:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t741n-0006Nd-HY; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 22:38:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t741f-0006NK-Uq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 22:38:07 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t741a-0001oR-AW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 22:38:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=debbugs.gnu.org; s=debbugs-gnu-org; h=Date:From:In-Reply-To:References:MIME-Version:To:Subject; bh=iV45H4fMlnqDNyQslzjs2kisy2wu8RuOJvvwWLin26E=; b=WFIGCNn5HrHYaqJcQKbe82N1/307G7BR/4e9s6EKTybsQxJFcQFiaxtUI85WN7cRKobB+PFZGUGrF7a7UOFvLDrzsybtQwiVyrBMoljdib+vOPlxOStycdUzNsrofw66F8RRe6jn+qNhXEAFbeOG2ZWEYEB97VS/3Gmwsi5UDxKt4eGw/hYzUC1mG3jVdTSTikZs4vMAEoK5EE0T+NV3X1LZAmyru30bHI2/6PykM8oGvZE8barhR/3tHw8r2SwhIUfSIwZ50iuxABe8gGCZS3a5LLui0yWYoiuUkFJ1LSwp2rED9Ioc260qpBkENQdbdtYlmzyYyFcDGMUkqGYsqQ==; Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1t741a-0008LV-2P for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 22:38:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Corwin Brust Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2024 02:38:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 73812 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 73812-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B73812.173051504632065 (code B ref 73812); Sat, 02 Nov 2024 02:38:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 73812) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2024 02:37:26 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52659 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1t740z-0008L6-Dz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 22:37:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oo1-f44.google.com ([209.85.161.44]:41117) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1t740w-0008Ky-MY for 73812@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 22:37:23 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-oo1-f44.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-5ebbf8a7d0dso54684eaf.0 for <73812@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 19:37:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1730515037; x=1731119837; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=iV45H4fMlnqDNyQslzjs2kisy2wu8RuOJvvwWLin26E=; b=Xo5EzAYxcJrOGdXMa/YAaXaLVrFLnXXMWhpgQP1ddyspnXxi/qG3GrI0IL4Zu0v55J Bl/xxiIDfGKAD6+Ejd3XszdY5dQCR1YsJngmfQFH264wTYeEFiYXsqe+3TlTSG/bbeMQ GUQTDaSLpLVKudgeT+vArPBuiXpZ4+mHiY8uoq0CDm9rc+gfEQHe3XDophxzBrCs6CoY gIwSdj6G8Vt4tahhB//pSSdVSpRnFJ0YFHihWamLQZ4JPfxeV/MKVLeZ4D7IsMXw3EDN ntuV8flrvwRCWUkAC2znwsta5JcITtBNBlfvcLfBzQXZWjdw/Bi9dT8BV9aFYJmYLKYN ePig== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVV/jpq9wtjfIYGjE3UP26R8h+SoefkW3gus3p6h6L7EZKmw9TZCwsKh5FFEKVLL2kHBJ4eAQ==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzWwEl+8Xl2aa0540xnD9I2Qwrh5vaxlVOIq1ZfR3ApUe8/6hQE +V2IwpKl4lzsmkoWiVqBE2KmdU0SEHDZnD450bzDOn1YkrJI8nf5D6rvx24DRggO2TZdcilonkq R2F/6cvgC5z6IFYxEnclQsdE830I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHoCvqzJmRcEFYl2ny68hS07hqnefuPe82fl1OCrRsuqzkVoZznPB+0+plR0nqV9TxIE6jBQyDRqmJEvgp5YR0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:43a6:b0:717:f7b9:e22b with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-718682b09f5mr7950519a34.7.1730515036897; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 19:37:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:294711 Archived-At: Hi All, On Fri, Nov 1, 2024 at 9:05=E2=80=AFPM Stefan Kangas wrote: > > "J.P." writes: > > I can only add that some of our users are very concerned with Emacs's > startup time, and spend a lot of time optimizing it. Unexpectedly > pulling in all of ERC in some cases certainly won't help them. > > > "J.P." writes: > > > >> Eli Zaretskii writes: > >> > >>>> All in all, I'd prefer to leave this alone in Emacs 30. We have tim= e > >>>> to try reverting this on master and seeing whether it's a net win or= a > >>>> net loss, given the past history of the issue. (AFAIU, if you remov= e > >>>> this line, some change is pertinent in the manual?) > >> > >> It's been reverted on master for ten days now with no complaints: > >> > >> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=3D1854f275 > >> > >> If that's long enough to qualify as a net win, can we proceed with a > >> backport? > > > > It's been two weeks now since I was tasked with reverting this on maste= r > > in order to assess the damage, of which none has since been reported. > > > > Apologies if I'm out of line in pressing the issue, but I'm driven by a > > need to advocate for ERC's users, who've suffered greatly in the past > > due to my cowardliness in similar situations [1]. As such, I would very > > much appreciate a final verdict on this matter. > > I assume that we are talking about cherry-picking commit 1854f2751e3f to > the emacs-30 branch. > > Can removing the autoload cookie cause an issue outside of ERC, or for > non-users of ERC? If it cannot, I don't know that I'm in a better > position than you, being the ERC maintainer, to determine what kind of > negative impact removing it might have. If anything, it sounds like it > is more risky for non-users of ERC to leave things as is? > > In summary, my view is that removing it should be low risk, and it fixes > a known bug. It's arguably minor, but does affect startup performance. > So I think it sounds good to have the patch on emacs-30. > > Let's see if Eli or Andrea has anything to add here first, though. > Thank you JP and Stefan for diligence on this. I had flagged this for a reply but did not manage to make one before now. (Two weeks already? Good grief.) Perhaps importantly: I strongly suspect this bug is responsible for corruption of my customize file. (Unfortunately I had a bunch of stuff in there and wasn't good and pushed my changes to that particular file to the repo where I version my config, so I've lost a bit of work. On the plus side: it's generally of a cosmetic nature, mostly face tweaks which I found it convenient to "try out" using customize and then, because they were good, never got around to encoding into proper elisp.) I didn't/haven't completed any sort of minimal reproducer: I could be completely wrong that this bug is what caused my configuration settings to get blown away. But the timing is right. I will also mention, back to the "known issue" caused by this, that I maintain separate "desktop shortcuts" for launching Emacs with and without automatically launching ERC connections. It would be nice if this arrangement (once again) had the intended effect of not loading ERC when I'm not going to need it in the given session. In any event: +1 I'd be grateful to see this resolved before cutting 30.1