This is interesting. Let me see if I'm understanding properly. In this, I'll talk only about sexps, but I believe this argument should apply to all the forms we've talked about (word, sexp, paragraph, defun, page). These commands should:

1. Always move forward/back by ARG sexps (defaulting to 1), setting the region on all sexps it moves across.

I'm in agreement with #1, for sure. That is the basis for what I wanted initially.

2. Ignore whether transient-mark-mode is enabled.
3. Don't change behavior if the region is active or not.

#2 and #3 I believe can be considered together. There are a few things that could do this, but I think what you're saying is that this function should *only* move mark. That is, point should stay the same no matter what is called here. Additionally, it should activate mark. Is that what you meant?

> But adding new commands that still change behavior in mysterious ways
> depending on transient-mark-mode and active region is not something I
> would like to do.

My understanding was that #'use-region-p (which checks transient-mark-mode, and whether the region is active) is a standard way for determining whether to act on the region or not, and should generally be looked at before acting on the region. Is that not accurate?


On Fri, May 26, 2023 at 2:06 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> Cc: ruijie@netyu.xyz, 62892@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca,
>  drew.adams@oracle.com, juri@linkov.net
> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 18:32:56 -0400
>
> I don't think we could find standard key bindings that are easy enough
> to be worth thinking about.
>
>   > > Are you envisioning that users would bind some of these functions
>   > > to keys themselves?
>
>   > Yes. This is the main use-case I envisioned.
>
> This is not outright unreasonable.  I still doubt they would
> interest many users, and I would not favor documenting these
> features fully in the Emacs Manual.

After some more thinking, I came to the conclusion that I can only
support adding these new commands if they would work in a much more
predictable fashion: always move forward/back by ARG sexps and set the
region on all the sexps they moved across.  IOW, no change in behavior
depending on whether transient-mark-mode is ON or OFF, no change in
behavior depending on whether the region is active or not, and no
confusing notion of "extending the region" lumped into them.

Adding such simple commands could cater to those users who want
predictable marking behavior; perhaps those user will also want to
rebind C-M-f and C-M-b to these new commands.

But adding new commands that still change behavior in mysterious ways
depending on transient-mark-mode and active region is not something I
would like to do.

Sorry for bringing this up so late, I probably should have said this
at the very beginning of this discussion, if I were thinking fast
enough to realize this back then.