From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>
To: Jonas Bernoulli <jonas@bernoul.li>, 73853@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#73853: 31.0.50; Should and-let* become a synonym for when-let*?
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2024 18:10:44 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CADwFkmnzsX+sf8zEbQGDm=NnkWyRK_WWX6CjA5MqNZpk-N33wA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87ed3zndd6.fsf@bernoul.li>
Jonas Bernoulli <jonas@bernoul.li> writes:
> It is very disappointing that you have chosen to deprecate if-let and
> when-let in such a rushed manner. The same was done and reverted in
> 2018, and many of the same actors are involved this time around.
> I am surprised that you would make the same unforced error again.
>
> Reading through this and past conversations it is clear that there is no
> consensus what the ultimate goal is. But as far as I can tell, few, if
> any, are fully satisfied with the current (30.0.*) situation. There
> also seems to be agreement that unfortunate mistakes were made in the
> past, which limits our options now.
The goal is:
- To not have two macros doing the same thing, i.e. the pairs
`when-let`/`when-let*` and `if-let`/`if-let*`.
- To deprecate the single binding version of `when-let`.
> This could have been prevented if more people (including non-debbugs and
> non-emacs-devel regulars) were given a chance to think about the problem
> and time to articulate their concerns and proposals, before facts were
> created. Or even if the people who did take part in past conversations
> had spend more time actually talking things through.
I can agree that the timeline might have been on the shorter end here.
That said, I wasn't aware of any large controversy surrounding this.
If I was, I might have suggested that we give this more time.
> The same could have been done every time the dissatisfying state of the
> foo-let forms was brought up again, but instead new facts were rushed at
> every turn.
>
> Without stopping this destructive pattern, you won't be able to fix this
> mess.
I don't know what this is in reference to, sorry. I feel like I'm
missing some background. Could you perhaps help fill me in?
I searched the archives, but failed to find anything relevant.
> My short-term proposal is this:
Hmm, the points you raise are interesting but procedural in character.
Besides your concern that people might be unhappy with the decision,
a point that is fully taken, perhaps it would help if we could focus
on technical points instead.
Your proposal seems to be that we should rethink the decision to mark
`when-let`/`if-let` as obsolete. Is that correct?
If yes, perhaps you could explain this in more detail? What problem do
you see with marking them as obsolete?
Do you have a suggestion for what we should do instead?
prev parent reply other threads:[~2024-10-30 23:10 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 38+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2024-10-17 16:27 bug#73853: 31.0.50; and-let* is useless Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-17 16:40 ` Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-18 2:11 ` Michael Heerdegen via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-18 23:42 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-19 3:50 ` Michael Heerdegen via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-21 7:07 ` Augusto Stoffel
2024-10-21 8:57 ` Michael Heerdegen via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-21 12:09 ` Sean Whitton
2024-10-19 3:38 ` Sean Whitton
2024-10-20 12:24 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-10-22 14:47 ` bug#73853: 31.0.50; Should and-let* become a synonym for when-let*? Sean Whitton
2024-10-22 15:24 ` Michael Heerdegen via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-23 14:05 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-10-24 8:51 ` Sean Whitton
2024-10-25 12:09 ` Sean Whitton
2024-10-30 9:42 ` Michael Albinus via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-26 19:25 ` Jim Porter
2024-10-27 7:08 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-10-27 9:16 ` Michael Heerdegen via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-27 10:12 ` Michael Albinus via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-27 11:24 ` Michael Heerdegen via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-27 11:32 ` Sean Whitton
2024-10-27 11:44 ` Michael Albinus via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-27 12:28 ` Michael Heerdegen via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-27 13:10 ` Sean Whitton
2024-10-27 13:22 ` Michael Albinus via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-28 9:39 ` Michael Heerdegen via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-27 14:41 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-28 13:58 ` Michael Heerdegen via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-28 14:32 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-27 20:00 ` Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-28 2:15 ` Howard Melman
2024-10-28 3:19 ` Sean Whitton
2024-10-29 15:21 ` Jonas Bernoulli
2024-10-29 16:36 ` Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-30 0:49 ` Sean Whitton
2024-10-30 12:55 ` Corwin Brust
2024-10-30 23:10 ` Stefan Kangas [this message]
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