From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#50936: "(emacs) Help" does say how to find external packages Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 15:15:26 +0200 Message-ID: References: <83mtntdizr.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36293"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 50936@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 01 15:18:02 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mWIQM-00098Q-BQ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 15:18:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41722 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWIQK-0007nA-Ch for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 09:18:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54454) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWIOR-0005qX-1B for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 09:16:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:43409) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWIOQ-0002ev-Ow for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 09:16:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWIOQ-0003KZ-BK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 09:16:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 13:16:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 50936 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 50936-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B50936.163309414712774 (code B ref 50936); Fri, 01 Oct 2021 13:16:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 50936) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2021 13:15:47 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54955 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWIOA-0003Jy-L0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 09:15:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-f176.google.com ([209.85.215.176]:38687) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWIO7-0003Jk-M4 for 50936@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 09:15:45 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-f176.google.com with SMTP id s75so9391517pgs.5 for <50936@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:15:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=f8wHWldXWuZeWqPTNq19161Jr4JvO10+TXJvUBuP7HI=; b=sRnjZdb/ZfS/hHrlABxwqh68PJlTxCT7VvJH4dNkYEEBFk7EzQDnZfxtbejFQpQoKJ snYZaKmx8AJQUUqszf8rPp00MdUEizyBWJmkRLZUjZ/ECcCORpD9VGMA5EfPBwh60Bae NzIcZGBjNbE7FT5emg/fWqTBmy1EBxJcdGeZ+ixCkBRiwncOlEsVuzOOLdbuDWpDrQqw RNemXyMII4wLEXe/kU/B1jN8Pt15sa9sZt9RMr2ZJy5traQTftSGbk1k9C7qEA32dOIm FghGRavcn8BEW3cFctWkYbRfH1YeAQRq81ZmJ2zqHoyMnVVYC1nutoFG73WWTuL+XzA7 Nbtw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5337qt6BYdQz/5q/C6lyxSGP7oZbsjJG1vcVywnkuy7tGVb7DYXd aM41UyQ5oJdkTe7LooH/c+yD8pAtNlZOPBzIs0w8XO2Y X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz6ULjpkfwfiFTehu1RhjoLIMlNBIQiikphkMLfJS1FHQ/virttv/r29kOFcfkzXg44T5eomy4idDlEzFkfMn4= X-Received: by 2002:a63:4717:: with SMTP id u23mr9611738pga.359.1633094137564; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:15:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83mtntdizr.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:216043 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > > I'm not sure if the recommendation should be changed, or simply > > amended to also mention M-x list-packages. > > It's okay to also mention list-packages, but if so, the text should > explicitly say that it's for features and packages not included in > the core distribution. I think this sounds like the best solution. > More importantly, I think we should seriously consider whether such > text has its place in that section. That section is supposed to be a > cookbook for quickly and efficiently find Emacs features, so it should > be limited to methods and commands that accurate, in the sense that > they don't present the user with long lists of potential hits. By > contrast, list-packages shows a very long list of packages (more than > 400 as of this writing), which can easily overwhelm the user. Even > "C-h p" doesn't show such long lists (the longest has 50 items), and > it is already too long, which is why it's the last in the list of > recommended methods. That's a problem, but there is IMO no way around that as long as Emacs doesn't bundle packages like php-mode, haskell-mode, eglot or lsp-mode, markdown-mode, etc.