From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#56508: Suggestions for the "Help" menu Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:04:53 -0500 Message-ID: References: <83wncjxdcx.fsf@gnu.org> <83sfn6xzhf.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9143"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 56508@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 12 16:07:37 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oBGY5-0002EJ-Ds for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 16:07:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37858 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oBGY4-0003dX-8Q for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:07:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48082) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oBGVb-0001Ft-ME for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:05:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:49408) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oBGVb-00064p-Bq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:05:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oBGVb-0001on-62 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:05:03 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 14:05:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 56508 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 56508-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B56508.16576347026980 (code B ref 56508); Tue, 12 Jul 2022 14:05:03 +0000 Original-Received: (at 56508) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jul 2022 14:05:02 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43303 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oBGVZ-0001oN-PL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:05:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-f43.google.com ([209.85.216.43]:36733) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oBGVX-0001o1-Jc for 56508@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:04:59 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-f43.google.com with SMTP id z12-20020a17090a7b8c00b001ef84000b8bso11498669pjc.1 for <56508@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 07:04:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uuRNlMqENCNNz4GtSsq4dpvA5g5GgKJ0fYtcmlWzSU8=; b=pUF/3Ho6SZ/H6qKyNJw1BaRwelPwC3XpnZewfi4LZkJqRVrHqlUkRv1mjre+NE0nrV tHi+MurHJ4J6H2N1oGPriCZERk9AZdOgE+atSMQc8qRtZP2nTRmuzrCfUL8KiJmG8IP4 w4/mcfU5NreZvyZczl7uKYM9b+ZD5nALo0UiOuziQ5rZFV7stdnxT12GtMrM1V3+ry9j TQXRzjGmcvszwKuauI0SFl4H+eD/vChjIOX4it/cc1r+4QyEWKMrMIHocLENElHeloNg K4mngy+GNtdlz3P90bdxtKX7N7yaB8qlrpTK3Z3uj9drHeWx4aqb3QpJ+mBGav8Kk84v PpxA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora/UnvfvXIqB0qYhMQwvdwaQ4qj16LBqJJPedIPtb35L1Y4DcdlK 9ntXlV6xJR8PgHKgFoNM67X53uJjQhpLCXHbowofEx3a X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1v/poxj4qCV8FskQJWh+Lse/Rw+fzNmYL7lCTttvH2Y6kAa0zhL7nienfF1UJKvW13MtGKLNomlhHniwNxIm4o= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:7c0d:b0:16b:7dd2:626c with SMTP id x13-20020a1709027c0d00b0016b7dd2626cmr23633956pll.152.1657634693964; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 07:04:53 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:04:53 -0500 In-Reply-To: <83sfn6xzhf.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:236793 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > it's a matter of personal opinion, so let's not argue about > that. Sure. > The important question is: does that single menu item do any harm? Not that one item in and of itself, no, but overall the "Help" menu does feel overwhelming. Anything we could remove from it would help, and to my mind this is an obvious candidate. > Our current stopgap is to tell more in the help-echo (which you for > some reason ignore in your criticism). The help-echo and the menu item text could just switch places, and it would be an improvement, IMHO. (FWIW, I couldn't find anything about "Mule" in the Emacs manual outside of "ps-mule.el" and `(emacs) MS-DOS'.)