From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#46627: [PATCH] Add new help command 'describe-command' Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 10:39:14 -0600 Message-ID: References: <835z2o4fes.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11374"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 46627@debbugs.gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 20 17:40:20 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lDVIq-0002td-6d for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 17:40:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44030 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lDVIp-0006Pr-8G for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:40:19 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51336) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lDVIX-0006Ph-Tg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:40:01 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:41148) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lDVIX-0005HV-M3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:40:01 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lDVIX-00060c-IR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:40:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2021 16:40:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 46627 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 46627-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B46627.161383916323047 (code B ref 46627); Sat, 20 Feb 2021 16:40:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 46627) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2021 16:39:23 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52694 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lDVHu-0005zf-NE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:39:22 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-f171.google.com ([209.85.210.171]:39780) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lDVHs-0005zS-FG for 46627@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 11:39:21 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-f171.google.com with SMTP id 189so3912457pfy.6 for <46627@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 08:39:20 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=FNBRzD3HLaH6lWqPb/1vnOrSn09IiH+M1zdnkysO9+E=; b=uXc+aFNw+OCI15F1WS2AVSvabu79MO1pkU8eTN5gbTCi9gmiMYQWHrUxvALANCuS8V E5rR5IpnEvEUwR2raEy1JhUp2bVncX1W3eoo0KGcHJ7W92WVUdI0A7JE/4BR+HSZEcQl 0Tj43REKvRZRdXg2pA/GeFcX9Uy2+D20VDT0K5GYN4WJ+V29pI2SYxz0gpR0mg4+3TLv 2YwtS5EiTxsmejz+LWaj73OwjoIxFOKK2a6+237av94VuVQxoWz+b4zYaG5t3xNVrAH2 KkCawwKWGTLliGNh8qcszERFrs6KH3K2cevOu1a6WVVV7YJ2hQlPa/iIsPFfbRJxijKo 1y4Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531SV4hu41nMRdB9gsBgXV/jFuZgcn2pCgZhOg5/uUuk9A09UQJK rLWu+/iJH7xDNDlqhEC6GCOo6SpXtDbnY1mpvfE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJze80YOBYAu/29LA1tcLnDGJ9tLBJfB18d0myV/0Ov9sqtU8pfjcYuo+eS+omM7HewiaYe3JHGzg2QCe/X5TuA= X-Received: by 2002:a63:e108:: with SMTP id z8mr12980515pgh.363.1613839154637; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 08:39:14 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 20 Feb 2021 10:39:14 -0600 In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:200442 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > There seems to be little difference between the proposed > describe-command command and the existing describe-function command. > Whatever the former could do, the latter already does. > > Am I missing something? > > If not, what benefit justifies even the small cost in complexity (of > UI, of manual, and of code) of adding describe-command? It makes it easier for users to look up only commands, as opposed to all functions. For end-users, many of which are non-programmers (or at least not ELisp programmers), it is unnecessarily hard to find documentation for a relevant command using `C-h f'. Consider the situation when a user doesn't already know the command name. The workflow today is something like: use `M-x' to find the command name, `C-a C-k C-g', then `C-h f C-y'. This is even worse if you don't realize you can kill the command in the minibuffer, which is actually not immediately obvious: the workflow is then to try to remember the name and manually disambiguate it in the mass of often fairly similar looking names thrown at you by `C-h f'. So the idea is to combine searching for commands with looking up their documentation. I think the added complexity is a small price to pay for this improvement in usability. (The above is also based on my own experience and frustration, in both the distant past and the not so distant past.)