From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#56508: Suggestions for the "Help" menu Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 22:16:00 -0500 Message-ID: References: <83wncjxdcx.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27702"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 56508@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 12 05:17:28 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oB6Ot-0006xR-6A for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 05:17:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41682 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oB6Os-0003R1-3W for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 23:17:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49776) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oB6OU-00030o-Ne for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 23:17:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:47485) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oB6OU-0001RC-FG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 23:17:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oB6OU-0004FC-Bq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 23:17:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 03:17:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 56508 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 56508-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B56508.165759576916238 (code B ref 56508); Tue, 12 Jul 2022 03:17:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 56508) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jul 2022 03:16:09 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41381 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oB6Nc-0004Dp-Ly for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 23:16:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-f50.google.com ([209.85.216.50]:43754) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oB6Na-0004Cz-Eb for 56508@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 23:16:07 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-f50.google.com with SMTP id o5-20020a17090a3d4500b001ef76490983so6685581pjf.2 for <56508@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 20:16:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qcwcKlmSrKj6mFH/Md1YL8RNNPR2IcuVm5Vzp1Dk4z4=; b=SkDh+Mou7B87uR1UEnBcULzWD6K94ee4bqf/6fQmFeBEWNQ4xbv+MoqYc9JHl88xRJ V3Ki51dIWYk10s8AkwaE6XZKz0KfalBoM6bxs6ZW1AH93Sb4Den4GwIMvyxeLfLwh3/o KvK8MGOLH8qpzwdOzXziYRROLyHEuF0K+DNUE/LA80A8qKo16L3DJot5teeKo1lJ55lB +pHPZ+cz0wtLwW/af5wS3kum/paFt5WjshkuOkYuKHVGwx9btUh/FfsO8pLjXLAUwQWD 4cmusiFo2OWiPixPmG437fRuFA1adwa5ewVzsSwy3yM0JulqrdPZh8g6vmovV/A+j5ja UUGw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora+X4JmR/U/q5LK9CMgKwooBPqCzsEVKMjJ3KePmXmgk7YEj4r4m YGoYq+HZDWJlPzhTMme9ginTce70YfKhkXLhZG0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1takL6ke4Bqs076aWcg6j7w1MiZ/Rk3werlP6mGCTapR8F24/vuSSArf7faJkBaMFG1vj43o21bx4CAsT8FMhA= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:4d8d:b0:1ef:e3a1:d1bd with SMTP id oj13-20020a17090b4d8d00b001efe3a1d1bdmr1730789pjb.175.1657595760821; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 20:16:00 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 22:16:00 -0500 In-Reply-To: <83wncjxdcx.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:236736 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Stefan Kangas >> Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 21:04:51 -0500 >> >> Suggestions for the "Help" menu: > > I object. We just reshuffled that menu recently, let's not touch it > for another major release or two. Sorry, I must have missed that we did that. In any case, I don't think that is very good grounds for not making further improvements. > Specific comments: > >> 1. Remove "Emacs FAQ". It is not nearly as up-to-date as the >> manual, and most users these days will either find it by other >> means or just search the web. > > So you are basically saying we don't need the FAQ? I'm saying that we don't need it in the menu (at least not in its current shape). >> 2. Remove "Emacs Psychotherapist". Sorry, but in terms of chatbots >> there are *way* better ones out there these days. If anything, >> move it to "Games". > > I object to making Emacs dead serious, because it will make it dead. Agreed, but there is plenty of space between "dead serious" and "whimsical". >> 3. Remove "Non(Warranty)" and "Getting New Versions" as it is >> already available under "About Emacs". > > These are politically motivated and cannot be removed. Too bad. >> 4. Under "Describe" we have the item "Show all of Mule Status" which >> is a rather hard-to-understand name. Does it need to be there? > > Yes. > >> Should it get a better name? > > Do you have any suggestions? "Show Multilanguage Status" is already an improvement. >> 5. "Describe Coding System Briefly" under "Describe" -- is this >> useful? I just get this cryptic message here: >> >> F[U:],K[U:],T[U:],P>[=:],P<[=:], default F[U:],P>[U:],P<[U:] > > It's completely understandable here: File encoding, Keyboard encoding, > Terminal encoding, Process encoding (input and output). I don't doubt that you understand it, but I don't think many new users will. I don't understand almost any of it myself. For example, what does "=:" mean? And what does "default" mean? This looks like a power-users tool, not like something that belongs in the help menu, to me.