From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#65913: with-help-window arranges for 'inhibit-read-only' to be set to 't' Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2023 08:14:44 -0700 Message-ID: References: <838r9anrmi.fsf@gnu.org> <04_YeulwxttSgx-ucr-VfmWTxKH81JSzyGT-sOTCmIoygmC3J7tNUFEY6pzA1O53iwhjtDqN88gX6pkBNR7e7b_kCefsrYMoIGPKJKt99rM=@protonmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40261"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 65913@debbugs.gnu.org To: Heime Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 13 17:15:22 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qgRaL-000AHH-Hs for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Wed, 13 Sep 2023 08:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 13 Sep 2023 08:14:44 -0700 In-Reply-To: <04_YeulwxttSgx-ucr-VfmWTxKH81JSzyGT-sOTCmIoygmC3J7tNUFEY6pzA1O53iwhjtDqN88gX6pkBNR7e7b_kCefsrYMoIGPKJKt99rM=@protonmail.com> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:270314 Archived-At: Heime writes: > Stefan, is this to say that for you it is good that there is no way > to figure out that there is no requirement to reset buffer-read-only > from the self documentation ? And that it is even unnecessary to > state that the duffer is read only by going through the different > docstrings. Such conclusions is seriously deficient with little regard > to how much time developers waste in working with the language. No, I just don't see why anyone would assume that you would have to mess around with buffer-read-only, given that the manual (for example) says: -- Macro: with-help-window buffer-or-name body... This macro evaluates BODY like =E2=80=98with-output-to-temp-buffer=E2= =80=99 (*note Temporary Displays::), inserting any output produced by its forms into a buffer specified by BUFFER-OR-NAME, which can be a buffer or the name of a buffer. The docstring also seems pretty clear to me. Nothing leads me to think that I can't just (with-help-window "*foo*" (insert "bar")) as indeed I can. And help mode is read-only so that part is clear too. I understand that this aspect confused you, but we can't add every possible confusion to the ELisp manual and/or docstrings. They would end up being much too long, which would also "waste time". Therefore, we have to focus on clarifying aspects that are confusing to many. Is this an exact science? Not really, quite the contrary. The purpose of these discussions is precisely to make better decisions in cases such as these. In this case, Eli asked for my opinion, so I gave mine.