From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#52870: [External] : bug#52870: Is displaying bindings in describe-function useful? Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 15:44:18 -0800 Message-ID: References: <83wnjnk0at.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf03jqvr.fsf@gnu.org> <83tueqimwc.fsf@gnu.org> <87bl0dwbrd.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0f1b3p3.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18919"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "52870@debbugs.gnu.org" <52870@debbugs.gnu.org> To: Drew Adams , Po Lu , Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 16 00:45:41 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n8sjs-0004g3-8z for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2022 00:45:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:32908 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n8sjq-0003Kz-Td for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 18:45:38 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56996) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n8sjG-0003Kq-TV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 18:45:02 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:49316) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n8sjG-0000g0-Jg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 18:45:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8sjG-000077-FB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 18:45:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 23:45:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 52870 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 52870-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B52870.1642290267376 (code B ref 52870); Sat, 15 Jan 2022 23:45:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 52870) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2022 23:44:27 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42219 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8sih-000060-0I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 18:44:27 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-f176.google.com ([209.85.210.176]:40513) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8sie-00005j-Iz for 52870@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 18:44:25 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-f176.google.com with SMTP id w204so6248231pfc.7 for <52870@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 15:44:24 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+suM35sp+DvFEtbdMu4nt4Xs16aQWR4KZ+yHcybQe3s=; b=iaGQMpSIrdrLTWtx/C1FajyUtEPhHZEBddJaYlE7gry/Jtklql9YskUfHQjjU6xi8P 9OekYeSwnrPxcT/OW1s7HUwAUa3Zt/24O2hXAAIslAxES4mr3XLqn6F0bM8AE79IIjla oXsF+mCb223+C7D30Y+o2gpqnU/2TBJ839emAvMkZklimwFoEB9Y8vYUJPWuPdVKmMIv aCmpMt6Pf+ZAwMu7DpCeJpx2Po41k8Xzjpv8xFjFQZncGCuu2LshsjbNNUeefkSmMm66 fyhL5ipgpHQlvItGkXCCNRgbQHqU11cL0ZrL168pC+Yi5uNbK0WI4VUONkHlJBpBDDs7 rm+w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5339alyPC/4MW/d2ID6WdGAbAzmSlSwyOvH0//2zIWeD7b5GOd50 P1g9/Ndc6M6Iy7sPQh/juD2tEzYjOX9ea86x4Zw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxplzUxsv5tUiLWlqoG6Fe/LOJTjcspGENLmBecOWZ/hG0gCJtMQ7mpi+O4PibewkMX3cyFmNLcWP/02SZSAD8= X-Received: by 2002:a63:81c6:: with SMTP id t189mr5919898pgd.325.1642290258747; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 15:44:18 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 15:44:18 -0800 In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:224357 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: >> FWIW I think it would be a good idea to do something like this: >> >> It is bound to C-h f, f, >> (which means it can be invoked from the menu: >> "Help Menu" -> "Describe" ...). IMO, that would be a step backwards. This bug report started out with me saying that this information is already confusing and distracting, and this would make it even more so. I don't think we should pretend that menu items are key bindings, because they are not. That is just an implementation detail. Our user manual correctly contrasts the two: "Each Emacs frame normally has a 'menu bar' at the top which you can use to perform common operations ... "On a display that supports a mouse, you can use the mouse to choose a command from the menu bar ... "Some of the commands in the menu bar have ordinary key bindings as well; if so, a key binding is shown after the item itself."