From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#46236: 26.1; explicit the info files installation Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:06:47 -0500 Message-ID: References: <875z3bq3p6.fsf@host.localdomain> <83fszkqacg.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40826"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: marmot-te@riseup.net, 46236@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 21 14:07:14 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lZBdS-000AQn-8T for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 14:07:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37470 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lZBdQ-0008AN-UG for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:07:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45928) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lZBdG-0008A9-JL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:07:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:45548) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lZBdG-0006dj-Ab for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:07:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lZBdG-0005Cn-4G for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:07:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 12:07:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 46236 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 46236-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B46236.161900681619997 (code B ref 46236); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 12:07:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 46236) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Apr 2021 12:06:56 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57094 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lZBd9-0005CT-Sf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:06:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-f174.google.com ([209.85.215.174]:36373) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lZBd7-0005CG-5P for 46236@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:06:54 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-f174.google.com with SMTP id j7so20175657pgi.3 for <46236@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:06:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hIji7e3whnkMwtcOuCEw9o2zHqVaBz2cAPb68OClyrY=; b=n8VyGuAhzUXP5FnK7NF/mT4DDHCKJ3R51w5ueaE+6Ho3zKSqt+CCUEMo/mo4m2HXfb jLlPBYxbQm+dWUNT/J/5lvxFkFtMlNd/XLLeqXFz1l23BkCd77herCSswhNzb+zXMpea PYpWKrHaUKkn4oNjOb1fpu729q4EUnLa3FfXI1iQ94MafOVqRUihdqU4n5nB8FU508ZQ 9jm+7t3PmmCokdOL+QZgxkVhUmLQhdgJ7aJ3bHg/OdJf5Ye/1rxGFrKNIvcNYz3QNEL2 4YVHQ92sBUIjeVGfzA2JPuoAK3F47tP0RV3WNdsOB5mVQ2Bz9D0MntVvbNFkUtv0tQZj 1Mtg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530iOrze42Wg/BwGZwLIUa9ewazruu+M2E+ujFp7FWsh7ZZMOigH DISBEie2WFn9nygldYFJclMoPQhJmUI43kk274s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzEFimXXYYntiM9MIXF7yPZbLWU6dECX/0XurbWLnfLLkKYUB33pKbTTqiPgckm3tMYh7OkFbLv/8GdGXq2xcg= X-Received: by 2002:a63:5b5c:: with SMTP id l28mr21260964pgm.363.1619006807400; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:06:47 -0500 In-Reply-To: <83fszkqacg.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:204598 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > That depend on what we say. We don't have to mention Debian or their > repository explicitly -- which would also be better because other > distros could have a similar problem. I have never seen or heard of any other distribution ripping out the manual and distributing it separately from Emacs itself. Do you know of any examples? > My problem with the suggestion is that I don't have a good idea where > to add the message. We could: > > . display a special message when a manual is supposed to be part of > Emacs; or > . modify the message in case of a manual that wasn't found to better > indicate that the user should try installing it > > We could also do both. When I say `C-h r' without `emacs-common-non-dfsg' installed on my Debian machine, I get "Info file emacs does not exist". I get the same message when trying to follow the Info node reference from `C-h f pcase', but it is complaining about the elisp manual. Perhaps we could just find where that message comes from, add a list of manuals that should always exist, and warn the user there if they don't. > But I don't think we should name the specific distros or their > specific package names; that way lies madness of having to maintain > those names forever. Given that Debian and its derivatives have a fairly dominant position, and are the only ones suffering from this, I think this maintenance overhead would be small. Our job also got easier recently since Debian abandoned their "emacsNN" packages (where NN is the major version) in favour of just versioned "emacs". So the packages used to be named "emacs24-common-non-dfsg", but now they are just named "emacs-common-non-dfsg". IOW, I think this would be easy to do technically, but it would need us to recommend the "non-free" repository. I'm therefore starting to think that this should be the responsibility of Debian. They should solve the problems that they have created for their users; such a warning should be added by *them*. Doesn't that make more sense?