From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#52870: Is displaying bindings in describe-function useful? Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2021 12:19:32 -0800 Message-ID: References: <83wnjnk0at.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf03jqvr.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34525"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: 52870@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 29 21:20:14 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n2fQk-0008rg-P7 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 21:20:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38448 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n2fQj-00029S-5N for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 15:20:13 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35584) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n2fQY-00027W-Eo for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 15:20:02 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:38898) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n2fQY-0006ES-4o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 15:20:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n2fQY-0003NV-0z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 15:20:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2021 20:20:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 52870 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 52870-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B52870.164080918012947 (code B ref 52870); Wed, 29 Dec 2021 20:20:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 52870) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Dec 2021 20:19:40 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50444 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n2fQC-0003Ml-Fs for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 15:19:40 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pl1-f169.google.com ([209.85.214.169]:40759) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n2fQA-0003MU-LJ for 52870@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 15:19:39 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pl1-f169.google.com with SMTP id l15so1765438pls.7 for <52870@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 12:19:38 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Af0xx5gR8YgMeG3TOgzRFwZKE/el8AIg7KWpG+QSj7w=; b=niK0Bn93EJUCo1TQKHP+cgMyk+T2shKbNhgX0LId1BZlqYwEZPi0F0RhSA69hZy0hS gwIyuLJQp82C3i+VK1x46WYahOkW4meMm0LLZy0QuAmEyBMULlRZHm65ByLOpzOXzY9l bbsMB8KoY3g5B/X4b8Lu4hEMl1k+sJk5ZtI7fTHdLCC8MgwtGNwfaeAE/N+ex3ltfE1a QXx7dsttLYwjQRMr5sS9LNb0TJp8AjTTwUsb33mC9JMp8X1xMGrF+xvap+NKmwLBkPvp db609k52M9GwyvYaa8mYos+FSyR6+DNshat881+6O37a/v8B8rN7zuWBs6/bbKSDN4Zt bLAw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533kxNpQ5VRnp91qyDOnJViPXxyNDjZrqK5LZJArQyAOuSb+zn/2 CU+lvSdthAnLyiXjHZOJH1NtgD0CnqjAV2bL37I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzqMRjpdJRVHJ9QTmJcwPx4IOvGC7KK6HtBoB6gLVJh0RCaFpEn/SnMFIdqgj+myUkGXXNxGUe8J9LBtb+9+2I= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:1646:: with SMTP id il6mr33933378pjb.143.1640809172899; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 12:19:32 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 12:19:32 -0800 In-Reply-To: <83lf03jqvr.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 29 Dec 2021 18:51:52 +0200") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:223379 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > If by b) you mean to push the menu binding to the very end, where it > will probably not seen at all, You would only ever need to see it in specific situations. Furthermore, screens are at least 80x24 ( more these days, I guess) so we can usually fit the entire documentation on one screen. > then I don't think that could be the default, either. Just changing > the order, so that non-menu bindings are shown first, is okay, I > think. That's already the case, AFAICT. But I might be wrong: I never look at that line, as I always found it too noisy to read comfortably. I suspect for many users, that line will be worse than useless, as it is hardly immediately clear what e.g. " " is even supposed to mean. It looks like line-noise. BTW, it is even worse for describe-function: describe-function is an autoloaded interactive compiled Lisp function i= n =E2=80=98help-fns.el=E2=80=99. It is bound to . We don't even get to see `C-h f' here. > But banishing that to after the version where the command was > introduced doesn't sound like something I could agree to by default. What is your rationale for this? Is it easier to accept if it is before the "Probably introduced" line?