From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#40813: [PATCH] Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 14:19:11 +0200 Message-ID: References: <20200424113216.42884.qmail@mail.muc.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="122698"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 40813@debbugs.gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 24 14:20:16 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jRxJY-000VmS-46 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 14:20:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34058 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRxJW-0003fZ-Tf for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:20:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43774) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRxJM-0003fD-BM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:20:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRxJK-0002u8-Rg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:20:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:45086) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRxJK-0002t7-F3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:20:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRxJK-0007KD-9x for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:20:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:20:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40813 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 40813-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40813.158773077028116 (code B ref 40813); Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:20:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 40813) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2020 12:19:30 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56632 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRxIo-0007JQ-LP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:19:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-f182.google.com ([209.85.219.182]:42947) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jRxIl-0007JB-Jz for 40813@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:19:28 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-f182.google.com with SMTP id i16so4921742ybq.9 for <40813@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 05:19:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mpUnoB/KvKdXehue2g2v3/9gaIghTzaNlKcJu5QLxBE=; b=bJMYTa1w+30TrrkxPi3ZviZrDiZG8BtmUPC75QXTjTTGiKNop0J0pVhwCvc0Ju2+aN 9zReLpGsJIwyEPbewfy6qME3LLpob5mjNqfPfSCalCezd2GPCZ3RgYGIVuPYQ6pyKO5N 0XQxxXRaNh/2MuVyMbYhlHbpYwlMDzxiFLsbYjc+LqOqOQ0mvsFr7EckLOanJ2WotOuk H/PTsc2nEUk2WaLZEylwJw1qc+kupfv7snDX1Q0n1W+ZHqxBNvISEdVEt/+8xXa/T/+6 dqzJ75Jc7Mc7yPzdQUSF3wuOCqZbLRQ984uKgP7stWBtlMXp4RwYqEeBUOESecTjTsGo 8pLA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Puai4bZNfhko/KsecSW1H3pqGISCtDsH3+efA6zxtk6rLnGsxp/7 2F0lwWTbLxrDU0uJYsICaXcRyevqw11wPoPURmU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKizcVfcU3rNQRJeBlICHfCOri8m5tAOtxvKff6JGDi/N2cy6+ryQynJWgQluqNKVkeBHe1aAkEqsVsK/PWyvg= X-Received: by 2002:a25:4183:: with SMTP id o125mr10231687yba.309.1587730762069; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 05:19:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20200424113216.42884.qmail@mail.muc.de> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:178915 Archived-At: Hi Alan, Alan Mackenzie writes: > >> > I believe org-mode is vastly more well-known and arguably also more > >> > intuitive to users. > > I'm certain that's not right. Anybody who can use Emacs at all knows > outline-mode well enough to use it effectively. FWIW, I never learned outline-mode properly. I gave up at some point and learned org-mode instead, which was a much smoother process (mostly due to much better default keybindings). But I started using Emacs as late as 2004, so I guess YMMV. > Very much so. If these files' modes are changed to org-mode, then > sooner or later, org-mode enthusiasts will start filling them up with > obscure org-mode features, such that only an "org-mode elite" will be > able to edit these files. Which features do you think people would be interested in using besides the navigational commands? I can't think of any. > Org-mode is difficult to learn and opaque (see discussions of its > documentation in other threads). It is thus unsuitable for basic text > files. I obviously have a different opinion. :-) > I'm strongly against this change happening. But if it is to happen, it > should be drawn to people's attention by having a discussion in > emacs-devel. Yup, makes sense. I'll do that. Best regards, Stefan Kangas