bug#30552: 27.0.50; Incorrect link to Early Init File node and Early Init File clarification

bug#30552: 27.0.50; Incorrect link to Early Init File node and Early Init File clarification

[Kaushal Modi]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2360 bytes --]

X-Debbugs-CC: radon.neon@gmail.com

Hello,

I was following the changes for the early init file in the emacs manual,
and I across:

> After a package is installed, it is automatically made available by
Emacs in all subsequent sessions.  This happens at startup, before
processing the init file but after processing the early init file (*note
(elisp)Early Init File::).  As an exception, Emacs does not make
packages available at startup if invoked with the ‘-q’ or
‘--no-init-file’ options (*note Initial Options::).

   To keep Emacs from automatically making packages available at
startup, change the variable ‘package-enable-at-startup’ to ‘nil’.  You
must do this in the early init file (*note (elisp)Early Init File::), as

in (emacs) Package Installation

It looks like the (elisp)Early Init File node does not exist.. navigating
there gives:

user-error: No such node or anchor: ‘Early Init File’

But there *is* a (emacs) Early Init File node.

So, may be just needs /(elisp)/(emacs)/ ?


Here's a related request:

In (emacs) Early Init File, it says:

> However, it is sometimes desirable to
have customizations that take effect during Emacs startup earlier than
the normal init file is processed.  Such customizations can be put in
the early init file, ‘~/.emacs.d/early-init.el’.

It's not clear what those customizations are.. can you put a definitive
list of customizations that if one does *have* to now be in early-init.el?

For example, now package-user-dir *has* to be in early-init.el, but that
variable is not mentioned in that node.

If a list of variables cannot be listed in there for the sake of
maintenance.. there should be some way for a user to figure out if a
variable *needs to be* in early-init.el or *can be* in init.el.

Example:

- package-user-dir has to be in early-init.el
- But having package-archives in init.el is fine.

Why so? The answer to that Why needs to go in the Early Init File node.

Thanks.


In GNU Emacs 27.0.50 (build 2, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.23)
 of 2018-02-19
Repository revision: 071a0a571243f9498e0e58e5fe938a7b892a22db
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.60900000
System Description: Red Hat Enterprise Linux Workstation release 6.6
(Santiago)
-- 

Kaushal Modi

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3222 bytes --]

bug#30552: 27.0.50; Incorrect link to Early Init File node and Early Init File clarification

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 17:47:32 +0000
> Cc: radon.neon@gmail.com
> 
>    To keep Emacs from automatically making packages available at
> startup, change the variable ‘package-enable-at-startup’ to ‘nil’.  You
> must do this in the early init file (*note (elisp)Early Init File::), as
> 
> in (emacs) Package Installation
> 
> It looks like the (elisp)Early Init File node does not exist.. navigating there gives:
> 
> user-error: No such node or anchor: ‘Early Init File’

Fixed, thanks.

bug#30552: 27.0.50; Incorrect link to Early Init File node and Early Init File clarification

[Radon Rosborough]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 426 bytes --]

> there should be some way for a user to figure out if a variable
> *needs to be* in early-init.el or *can be* in init.el.

The set of variables which need to be set in early-init.el is exactly
the same as the set of variables which need to be set before
`package-initialize' is run, and hasn't changed as a result of this
patch. I do agree that adding explicit documentation of these
variables would be a good thing, though.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 651 bytes --]

bug#30552: 27.0.50; Incorrect link to Early Init File node and Early Init File clarification

[Kaushal Modi]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1343 bytes --]

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 2:28 PM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

> Fixed, thanks.
>

Hi Eli,

That doesn't seem to have fixed this. I believe the fix is this?:

diff --git a/doc/emacs/package.texi b/doc/emacs/package.texi
index 6c7493790d..b4398a553f 100644
--- a/doc/emacs/package.texi
+++ b/doc/emacs/package.texi
@@ -252,7 +252,7 @@ Package Installation
   After a package is installed, it is automatically made available by
 Emacs in all subsequent sessions.  This happens at startup, before
 processing the init file but after processing the early init file
-(@pxref{Early Init File,,, elisp, The Emacs Lisp Reference Manual}).
+(@pxref{Early Init File,,, emacs, The Emacs Manual}).
 As an exception, Emacs does not make packages available at startup if
 invoked with the @samp{-q} or @samp{--no-init-file} options
 (@pxref{Initial Options}).
@@ -261,7 +261,7 @@ Package Installation
   To keep Emacs from automatically making packages available at
 startup, change the variable @code{package-enable-at-startup} to
 @code{nil}.  You must do this in the early init file (@pxref{Early
-Init File,,, elisp, The Emacs Lisp Reference Manual}), as the variable
+Init File,,, emacs, The Emacs Manual}), as the variable
 is read before loading the regular init file.  Currently this variable
 cannot be set via Customize.


-- 

Kaushal Modi

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1813 bytes --]

bug#30552: 27.0.50; Incorrect link to Early Init File node and Early Init File clarification

[Kaushal Modi]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 838 bytes --]

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 3:39 PM Radon Rosborough <radon.neon@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> The set of variables which need to be set in early-init.el is exactly
> the same as the set of variables which need to be set before
> `package-initialize' is run, and hasn't changed as a result of this
> patch.
>

Thanks, that makes sense.


> I do agree that adding explicit documentation of these
> variables would be a good thing, though.
>

Do you still want to add few examples in the Early Init File node?
Something that says along the lines of:

"Variables that need to be set before calling package-initialize, like
package-user-dir, package-enable-at-startup should now be customized inside
this Early Init file. Variables that can be set post package-initialize,
like package-archives can be set in default Emacs Init file."
-- 

Kaushal Modi

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1475 bytes --]

bug#30552: 27.0.50; Incorrect link to Early Init File node and Early Init File clarification

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:13:24 +0000
> Cc: 30552@debbugs.gnu.org, radon.neon@gmail.com
> 
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 2:28 PM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> 
>  Fixed, thanks.
> 
> Hi Eli,
> 
> That doesn't seem to have fixed this.

Ah, yes.  I fixed another instance of the same problem.

> I believe the fix is this?:

Almost: there's no need to use the 5- argument @xref for references to
the same manual, and the second of these 2 @xref's is redundant.

Thanks.

bug#30552: 27.0.50; Incorrect link to Early Init File node and Early Init File clarification

[Radon Rosborough]

> Do you still want to add few examples in the Early Init File node?

I have no objection. I will get to it at some point, or someone else
can do it first.

bug#30552: 27.0.50; Incorrect link to Early Init File node and Early Init File clarification

[Stefan Kangas]

Radon Rosborough <radon.neon@gmail.com> writes:

>> Do you still want to add few examples in the Early Init File node?
>
> I have no objection. I will get to it at some point, or someone else
> can do it first.

Did you ever get around to doing this?

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

bug#30552: 27.0.50; Incorrect link to Early Init File node and Early Init File clarification

[Radon Rosborough]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 474 bytes --]

I did not, sorry, and don't see it happening in the foreseeable future
given my current workload.

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 3:13 PM Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> wrote:

> Radon Rosborough <radon.neon@gmail.com> writes:
>
> >> Do you still want to add few examples in the Early Init File node?
> >
> > I have no objection. I will get to it at some point, or someone else
> > can do it first.
>
> Did you ever get around to doing this?
>
> Best regards,
> Stefan Kangas
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 872 bytes --]

bug#30552: 27.0.50; Incorrect link to Early Init File node and Early Init File clarification

[Stefan Kangas]

Radon Rosborough <radon.neon@gmail.com> writes:

> I did not, sorry, and don't see it happening in the foreseeable future given my current workload.

I see that this text has changed a bit since this was last discussed.
Is the current text good, or is there still something missing?  It
explains which variables should be put in the early init file.

-----

49.4.6 The Early Init File
--------------------------

Most customizations for Emacs should be put in the normal init file.
*Note Init File::.  However, it is sometimes desirable to have
customizations that take effect during Emacs startup earlier than the
normal init file is processed.  Such customizations can be put in the
early init file, ‘~/.config/emacs.d/early-init.el’ or
‘~/.emacs.d/early-init.el’.  This file is loaded before the package
system and GUI is initialized, so in it you can customize variables that
affect frame appearance as well as the package initialization process,
such as ‘package-enable-at-startup’, ‘package-load-list’, and
‘package-user-dir’.  Note that variables like ‘package-archives’ which
only affect the installation of new packages, and not the process of
making already-installed packages available, may be customized in the
regular init file.  *Note Package Installation::.

   We do not recommend that you move into ‘early-init.el’ customizations
that can be left in the normal init files.  That is because the early
init file is read before the GUI is initialized, so customizations
related to GUI features will not work reliably in ‘early-init.el’.  By
contrast, the normal init files are read after the GUI is initialized.
If you must have customizations in the early init file that rely on GUI
features, make them run off hooks provided by the Emacs startup, such as
‘window-setup-hook’ or ‘tty-setup-hook’.  *Note Hooks::.

   For more information on the early init file, *note (elisp)Init
File::.

-----

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

bug#30552: 27.0.50; Incorrect link to Early Init File node and Early Init File clarification

[Radon Rosborough]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2242 bytes --]

It seems not unreasonable to me.

On Sun, Sep 29, 2019 at 9:00 AM Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> wrote:

> Radon Rosborough <radon.neon@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > I did not, sorry, and don't see it happening in the foreseeable future
> given my current workload.
>
> I see that this text has changed a bit since this was last discussed.
> Is the current text good, or is there still something missing?  It
> explains which variables should be put in the early init file.
>
> -----
>
> 49.4.6 The Early Init File
> --------------------------
>
> Most customizations for Emacs should be put in the normal init file.
> *Note Init File::.  However, it is sometimes desirable to have
> customizations that take effect during Emacs startup earlier than the
> normal init file is processed.  Such customizations can be put in the
> early init file, ‘~/.config/emacs.d/early-init.el’ or
> ‘~/.emacs.d/early-init.el’.  This file is loaded before the package
> system and GUI is initialized, so in it you can customize variables that
> affect frame appearance as well as the package initialization process,
> such as ‘package-enable-at-startup’, ‘package-load-list’, and
> ‘package-user-dir’.  Note that variables like ‘package-archives’ which
> only affect the installation of new packages, and not the process of
> making already-installed packages available, may be customized in the
> regular init file.  *Note Package Installation::.
>
>    We do not recommend that you move into ‘early-init.el’ customizations
> that can be left in the normal init files.  That is because the early
> init file is read before the GUI is initialized, so customizations
> related to GUI features will not work reliably in ‘early-init.el’.  By
> contrast, the normal init files are read after the GUI is initialized.
> If you must have customizations in the early init file that rely on GUI
> features, make them run off hooks provided by the Emacs startup, such as
> ‘window-setup-hook’ or ‘tty-setup-hook’.  *Note Hooks::.
>
>    For more information on the early init file, *note (elisp)Init
> File::.
>
> -----
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Best regards,
> Stefan Kangas
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2697 bytes --]

bug#30552: 27.0.50; Incorrect link to Early Init File node and Early Init File clarification

[Stefan Kangas]

Radon Rosborough <radon.neon@gmail.com> writes:

> It seems not unreasonable to me.

Thanks.  I'm going to assume that the current text is satisfactory and
close this bug.  If anyone feels that there is more to do here, please
reopen this bug and explain what is still missing.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas