bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[Dave Abrahams]

The report will be sent to bug-gnu-emacs@gnus.org

Please describe exactly what actions triggered the bug, and
the precise symptoms of the bug.  If you can, give a recipe
starting from `emacs -Q':

1. Evaluate:

(set-frame-parameter 
   (selected-frame) 
   'buffer-predicate (lambda (b) (message "buffer predicate: %s" b)))

2. `C-x C-f /tmp/xx RET'

3. `C-x C-f /tmp/yy RET'

4. `C-x k RET'

5. `M-: (message "======")'

6. `C-x b *Messages* RET'

This shows that the buffer-predicate never called when deciding what
buffer to replace yy with.  The docs of course could be read as not
guaranteeing it will be called, but IMO this renders the
buffer-predicate not-very-useful.


In GNU Emacs 24.1.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin11.4.0, Carbon Version 1.6.0 AppKit 1138.47)
 of 2012-06-27 on pluto.luannocracy.com
Windowing system distributor `Apple Inc.', version 10.7.4
Configured using:
 `configure '--prefix=/opt/local' '--without-x' '--without-dbus'
 '--without-gconf' '--without-libotf' '--without-m17n-flt'
 '--without-gpm' '--infodir' '/opt/local/share/info/emacs24-macport'
 '--with-mac'
 '--enable-mac-app=/opt/local/var/macports/build/_Users_dave_Public_MacPorts_Portfiles_editors_emacs24-macport/emacs24-macport/work/destroot/Applications/MacPorts'
 'CC=/usr/bin/clang' 'CFLAGS=-pipe -O2 -arch x86_64'
 'LDFLAGS=-L/opt/local/lib -Wl,-no_pie -arch x86_64'
 'CPPFLAGS=-I/opt/local/include''

Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: nil
  value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
  value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
  value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
  value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
  value of $LC_TIME: nil
  value of $LANG: nil
  value of $XMODIFIERS: nil
  locale-coding-system: iso-latin-1-unix
  default enable-multibyte-characters: t

Major mode: Fundamental

Minor modes in effect:
  highlight-changes-visible-mode: t
  diff-auto-refine-mode: t
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  recentf-mode: t
  pretty-control-l-mode: t
  Info-breadcrumbs-in-mode-line-mode: t
  workgroups-mode: t
  me-minor-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  server-mode: t
  ido-everywhere: t
  global-ede-mode: t
  global-auto-revert-mode: t
  display-time-mode: t
  delete-selection-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  mac-mouse-wheel-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent input:
: <C-return> M-: ( s e t - f r a m e - p a r a m e 
t e r SPC ' b u f f e r - p r e d i c a t e SPC ( l 
a m b d a SPC ( b ) SPC ( m e s s a g e SPC " b u f 
f e r SPC p r e d i c a t e : SPC % s ) <backspace> 
" SPC b ) ) ) <return> C-p C-p C-n C-n C-. <return> 
<C-return> <C-return> q M-: M-p C-. C-. C-. SPC ( s 
e l e c t e d - f r a m e ) C-e <return> <C-return> 
C-x C-f / t m p / x x <return> C-x C-f y y <return> 
C-x C-k C-x b * M e s s <return> C-r v u <backspace> 
<backspace> p r e d i c a t e C-r M-x o t h e r - b 
u f f <tab> C-g M-: ( o t h e r - b u f f e r ) <return> 
M-x r e p o r t - e m a c s C-g C-g M-x d e b b u g 
<tab> - s e <tab> a <tab> <return> b u f f e r - p 
r e d i c a t e <return> <return> C-e C-a <return> 
C-n C-n C-n C-n C-p C-p C-p C-p q C-n C-e C-n C-n C-a 
<return> q C-n <return> q C-n <return> q C-p C-p C-p 
C-p C-p C-p q M-x r e p o r t - b <backspace> e m b 
<backspace> a c s - b u f <backspace> g <return>

Recent messages:
buffer predicate: *Emacs Bugs*
buffer predicate: *Group*
buffer predicate: *Emacs Bugs*
buffer predicate: *Group*
buffer predicate: *Emacs Bugs*
buffer predicate: *Group*
buffer predicate: *Emacs Bugs*
buffer predicate: *Group*
buffer predicate: *Emacs Bugs*
buffer predicate: *Group*
byte-code: Beginning of buffer

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emacs)

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing                  Software Development        Training
http://www.boostpro.com             Clang/LLVM/EDG Compilers  C++  Boost

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[martin rudalics]

 > 1. Evaluate:
 >
 > (set-frame-parameter
 >    (selected-frame)
 >    'buffer-predicate (lambda (b) (message "buffer predicate: %s" b)))
 >
 > 2. `C-x C-f /tmp/xx RET'
 >
 > 3. `C-x C-f /tmp/yy RET'
 >
 > 4. `C-x k RET'
 >
 > 5. `M-: (message "======")'
 >
 > 6. `C-x b *Messages* RET'
 >
 > This shows that the buffer-predicate never called when deciding what
 > buffer to replace yy with.

Not so here: *Messages* contains the three lines fragment below

=====
"====="
buffer predicate: *scratch*

martin

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[Dave Abrahams]

on Sun Jul 29 2012, martin rudalics <rudalics-AT-gmx.at> wrote:

>> 1. Evaluate:
>>
>> (set-frame-parameter
>>    (selected-frame)
>>    'buffer-predicate (lambda (b) (message "buffer predicate: %s" b)))
>
>>
>> 2. `C-x C-f /tmp/xx RET'
>>
>> 3. `C-x C-f /tmp/yy RET'
>>
>> 4. `C-x k RET'
>>
>> 5. `M-: (message "======")'
>>
>> 6. `C-x b *Messages* RET'
>>
>> This shows that the buffer-predicate never called when deciding what
>> buffer to replace yy with.
>
> Not so here: *Messages* contains the three lines fragment below
>
> =====
> "====="
> buffer predicate: *scratch*

Actually that shows exactly what I claimed.  There's a reason I added
step 5.  The buffer predicate is not called until we try to switch to
the *Messages* buffer.  IMO it should be called when yy is killed.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing                  Software Development        Training
http://www.boostpro.com             Clang/LLVM/EDG Compilers  C++  Boost

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[martin rudalics]

 >>> 1. Evaluate:
 >>>
 >>> (set-frame-parameter
 >>>    (selected-frame)
 >>>    'buffer-predicate (lambda (b) (message "buffer predicate: %s" b)))
 >>> 2. `C-x C-f /tmp/xx RET'
 >>>
 >>> 3. `C-x C-f /tmp/yy RET'
 >>>
 >>> 4. `C-x k RET'
 >>>
 >>> 5. `M-: (message "======")'
 >>>
 >>> 6. `C-x b *Messages* RET'
 >>>
 >>> This shows that the buffer-predicate never called when deciding what
 >>> buffer to replace yy with.
 >> Not so here: *Messages* contains the three lines fragment below
 >>
 >> =====
 >> "====="
 >> buffer predicate: *scratch*
 >
 > Actually that shows exactly what I claimed.  There's a reason I added
 > step 5.  The buffer predicate is not called until we try to switch to
 > the *Messages* buffer.  IMO it should be called when yy is killed.

I see.  But `kill-buffer' calls `replace-buffer-in-windows' which
doesn't call `other-buffer'.  Only if the buffer to be killed is still
current after that, `kill-buffer' calls `other-buffer'.  In the scenario
above it is not called.

Why is showing the buffer visiting /tmp/xx bad in your scenario?  Can
you give a scenario where the present behavior really hurts you?  In
that case we can try to ignore such a buffer in `switch-to-prev-buffer'.

martin

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[Alp Aker]

On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 1:08 PM, martin rudalics <rudalics@gmx.at> wrote:
> I see.  But `kill-buffer' calls `replace-buffer-in-windows' which
> doesn't call `other-buffer'.  Only if the buffer to be killed is still
> current after that, `kill-buffer' calls `other-buffer'.  In the scenario
> above it is not called.
>
> Why is showing the buffer visiting /tmp/xx bad in your scenario?  Can
> you give a scenario where the present behavior really hurts you?  In
> that case we can try to ignore such a buffer in `switch-to-prev-buffer'.

Well, note that it's a regression:  replace-buffer-in-windows used to
call other-window (via window-loop).

As for how it hurts not to check buffer predicates in
swtich-to-prev-buffer:  Buffer predicates are supposed to provide a
way of exercising some control over what buffers are automatically
selected for display.  But if kill-buffer doesn't respect buffer
predicates, then there's not much point to setting up a buffer
predicate at all:  why bother filtering buffers chosen for display, if
the filter isn't respected by one of the most common ways in which a
buffer is chosen for the user?

It seems like something like the following would restore the old functionality:

=== modified file 'lisp/window.el'
--- lisp/window.el	2012-07-18 10:02:54 +0000
+++ lisp/window.el	2012-07-29 16:59:18 +0000
@@ -2679,10 +2679,12 @@
 	 (old-buffer (window-buffer window))
 	 ;; Save this since it's destroyed by `set-window-buffer'.
 	 (next-buffers (window-next-buffers window))
+         (pred (frame-parameter frame 'buffer-predicate))
 	 entry new-buffer killed-buffers visible)
     (when (window-dedicated-p window)
       (error "Window %s is dedicated to buffer %s" window old-buffer))

+    (unless
     (catch 'found
       ;; Scan WINDOW's previous buffers first, skipping entries of next
       ;; buffers.
@@ -2692,6 +2694,7 @@
 		       (not (setq killed-buffers
 				  (cons new-buffer killed-buffers))))
 		   (not (eq new-buffer old-buffer))
+                   (or (null pred) (funcall pred new-buffer))
                    (or bury-or-kill
 		       (not (memq new-buffer next-buffers))))
 	  (if (and (not switch-to-visible-buffer)
@@ -2713,6 +2716,7 @@
 	(when (and (buffer-live-p buffer)
 		   (not (eq buffer old-buffer))
 		   (not (eq (aref (buffer-name buffer) 0) ?\s))
+                   (or (null pred) (funcall pred buffer))
 		   (or bury-or-kill (not (memq buffer next-buffers))))
 	  (if (get-buffer-window buffer frame)
 	      ;; Try to avoid showing a buffer visible in some other window.
@@ -2731,16 +2735,22 @@
 			 (not (setq killed-buffers
 				    (cons buffer killed-buffers))))
 		     (not (eq buffer old-buffer))
+                     (or (null pred) (funcall pred buffer))
 		     (setq entry (assq buffer (window-prev-buffers window))))
 	    (setq new-buffer buffer)
 	    (set-window-buffer-start-and-point
 	     window new-buffer (nth 1 entry) (nth 2 entry))
-	    (throw 'found t))))
-
-      ;; Show a buffer visible in another window.
-      (when visible
-	(setq new-buffer visible)
-	(set-window-buffer-start-and-point window new-buffer)))
+	    (throw 'found t)))))
+
+      ;; If we reach this, then either: (1) we have a
+      ;; candidate buffer that was skipped because it was already visible on
+      ;; the frame, in which case we switch to it now, or (2) no candidate
+      ;; was found, in which case we switch to *scratch*.
+      (if visible
+          (setq new-buffer visible)
+        (setq new-buffer (get-buffer-create "*scratch*")))
+      (set-window-buffer-start-and-point window new-buffer))
+

     (if bury-or-kill
 	;; Remove `old-buffer' from WINDOW's previous and (restored list
@@ -2773,10 +2783,12 @@
 	 (frame (window-frame window))
 	 (old-buffer (window-buffer window))
 	 (next-buffers (window-next-buffers window))
+         (pred (frame-parameter frame 'buffer-predicate))
 	 new-buffer entry killed-buffers visible)
     (when (window-dedicated-p window)
       (error "Window %s is dedicated to buffer %s" window old-buffer))

+    (unless
     (catch 'found
       ;; Scan WINDOW's next buffers first.
       (dolist (buffer next-buffers)
@@ -2784,6 +2796,7 @@
 		       (not (setq killed-buffers
 				  (cons buffer killed-buffers))))
 		   (not (eq buffer old-buffer))
+                   (or (null pred) (funcall pred buffer))
 		   (setq entry (assq buffer (window-prev-buffers window))))
 	  (setq new-buffer buffer)
 	  (set-window-buffer-start-and-point
@@ -2794,6 +2807,7 @@
       (dolist (buffer (buffer-list frame))
 	(when (and (buffer-live-p buffer) (not (eq buffer old-buffer))
 		   (not (eq (aref (buffer-name buffer) 0) ?\s))
+                   (or (null pred) (funcall pred buffer))
 		   (not (assq buffer (window-prev-buffers window))))
 	  (if (get-buffer-window buffer frame)
 	      ;; Try to avoid showing a buffer visible in some other window.
@@ -2808,6 +2822,7 @@
 		   (or (buffer-live-p new-buffer)
 		       (not (setq killed-buffers
 				  (cons new-buffer killed-buffers))))
+                   (or (null pred) (funcall pred new-buffer))
 		   (not (eq new-buffer old-buffer)))
 	  (if (and (not switch-to-visible-buffer)
 		   (get-buffer-window new-buffer frame))
@@ -2816,12 +2831,17 @@
 		(setq visible new-buffer))
 	    (set-window-buffer-start-and-point
 	     window new-buffer (nth 1 entry) (nth 2 entry))
-	    (throw 'found t))))
-
-      ;; Show a buffer visible in another window.
-      (when visible
-	(setq new-buffer visible)
-	(set-window-buffer-start-and-point window new-buffer)))
+	    (throw 'found t)))))
+
+      ;; If we reach this, then either: (1) we have a candidate buffer that
+      ;; was skipped because it was already visible on the frame, in which
+      ;; case we switch to it now, or (2) no candidate was found, in which
+      ;; case we switch to *scratch*.
+      (if visible
+          (setq new-buffer visible)
+        (setq new-buffer (get-buffer-create "*scratch*")))
+      (set-window-buffer-start-and-point window new-buffer))
+

     ;; Remove `new-buffer' from and restore WINDOW's next buffers.
     (set-window-next-buffers window (delq new-buffer next-buffers))

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[Dave Abrahams]

on Sun Jul 29 2012, Alp Aker <alptekin.aker-AT-gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 1:08 PM, martin rudalics <rudalics@gmx.at> wrote:
>> I see.  But `kill-buffer' calls `replace-buffer-in-windows' which
>> doesn't call `other-buffer'.  Only if the buffer to be killed is still
>> current after that, `kill-buffer' calls `other-buffer'.  In the scenario
>> above it is not called.
>>
>> Why is showing the buffer visiting /tmp/xx bad in your scenario?  Can
>> you give a scenario where the present behavior really hurts you?  In
>> that case we can try to ignore such a buffer in `switch-to-prev-buffer'.
>
> Well, note that it's a regression:  replace-buffer-in-windows used to
> call other-window (via window-loop).
>
> As for how it hurts not to check buffer predicates in
> swtich-to-prev-buffer:  Buffer predicates are supposed to provide a
> way of exercising some control over what buffers are automatically
> selected for display.  But if kill-buffer doesn't respect buffer
> predicates, then there's not much point to setting up a buffer
> predicate at all:  why bother filtering buffers chosen for display, if
> the filter isn't respected by one of the most common ways in which a
> buffer is chosen for the user?

Which is what I meant by "this renders the buffer-predicate
not-very-useful."

Thanks for explaining all that for me, Alp, and for your suggested fix.
As for my use-case, it's all in
https://github.com/dabrahams/workgroups.el/commit/88a605d2a6ba47ea7a918ee8650441317826cddb
(Workgroups with buffer affinity).

>
> It seems like something like the following would restore the old functionality:
>
> === modified file 'lisp/window.el'
> --- lisp/window.el	2012-07-18 10:02:54 +0000
> +++ lisp/window.el	2012-07-29 16:59:18 +0000
> @@ -2679,10 +2679,12 @@
>  	 (old-buffer (window-buffer window))
>  	 ;; Save this since it's destroyed by `set-window-buffer'.
>  	 (next-buffers (window-next-buffers window))
> +         (pred (frame-parameter frame 'buffer-predicate))
>  	 entry new-buffer killed-buffers visible)
>      (when (window-dedicated-p window)
>        (error "Window %s is dedicated to buffer %s" window old-buffer))
>
> +    (unless
>      (catch 'found
>        ;; Scan WINDOW's previous buffers first, skipping entries of next
>        ;; buffers.
> @@ -2692,6 +2694,7 @@
>  		       (not (setq killed-buffers
>  				  (cons new-buffer killed-buffers))))
>  		   (not (eq new-buffer old-buffer))
> +                   (or (null pred) (funcall pred new-buffer))
>                     (or bury-or-kill
>  		       (not (memq new-buffer next-buffers))))
>  	  (if (and (not switch-to-visible-buffer)
> @@ -2713,6 +2716,7 @@
>  	(when (and (buffer-live-p buffer)
>  		   (not (eq buffer old-buffer))
>  		   (not (eq (aref (buffer-name buffer) 0) ?\s))
> +                   (or (null pred) (funcall pred buffer))
>  		   (or bury-or-kill (not (memq buffer next-buffers))))
>  	  (if (get-buffer-window buffer frame)
>  	      ;; Try to avoid showing a buffer visible in some other window.
> @@ -2731,16 +2735,22 @@
>  			 (not (setq killed-buffers
>  				    (cons buffer killed-buffers))))
>  		     (not (eq buffer old-buffer))
> +                     (or (null pred) (funcall pred buffer))
>  		     (setq entry (assq buffer (window-prev-buffers window))))
>  	    (setq new-buffer buffer)
>  	    (set-window-buffer-start-and-point
>  	     window new-buffer (nth 1 entry) (nth 2 entry))
> -	    (throw 'found t))))
> -
> -      ;; Show a buffer visible in another window.
> -      (when visible
> -	(setq new-buffer visible)
> -	(set-window-buffer-start-and-point window new-buffer)))
> +	    (throw 'found t)))))
> +
> +      ;; If we reach this, then either: (1) we have a
> +      ;; candidate buffer that was skipped because it was already visible on
> +      ;; the frame, in which case we switch to it now, or (2) no candidate
> +      ;; was found, in which case we switch to *scratch*.
> +      (if visible
> +          (setq new-buffer visible)
> +        (setq new-buffer (get-buffer-create "*scratch*")))
> +      (set-window-buffer-start-and-point window new-buffer))
> +
>
>      (if bury-or-kill
>  	;; Remove `old-buffer' from WINDOW's previous and (restored list
> @@ -2773,10 +2783,12 @@
>  	 (frame (window-frame window))
>  	 (old-buffer (window-buffer window))
>  	 (next-buffers (window-next-buffers window))
> +         (pred (frame-parameter frame 'buffer-predicate))
>  	 new-buffer entry killed-buffers visible)
>      (when (window-dedicated-p window)
>        (error "Window %s is dedicated to buffer %s" window old-buffer))
>
> +    (unless
>      (catch 'found
>        ;; Scan WINDOW's next buffers first.
>        (dolist (buffer next-buffers)
> @@ -2784,6 +2796,7 @@
>  		       (not (setq killed-buffers
>  				  (cons buffer killed-buffers))))
>  		   (not (eq buffer old-buffer))
> +                   (or (null pred) (funcall pred buffer))
>  		   (setq entry (assq buffer (window-prev-buffers window))))
>  	  (setq new-buffer buffer)
>  	  (set-window-buffer-start-and-point
> @@ -2794,6 +2807,7 @@
>        (dolist (buffer (buffer-list frame))
>  	(when (and (buffer-live-p buffer) (not (eq buffer old-buffer))
>  		   (not (eq (aref (buffer-name buffer) 0) ?\s))
> +                   (or (null pred) (funcall pred buffer))
>  		   (not (assq buffer (window-prev-buffers window))))
>  	  (if (get-buffer-window buffer frame)
>  	      ;; Try to avoid showing a buffer visible in some other window.
> @@ -2808,6 +2822,7 @@
>  		   (or (buffer-live-p new-buffer)
>  		       (not (setq killed-buffers
>  				  (cons new-buffer killed-buffers))))
> +                   (or (null pred) (funcall pred new-buffer))
>  		   (not (eq new-buffer old-buffer)))
>  	  (if (and (not switch-to-visible-buffer)
>  		   (get-buffer-window new-buffer frame))
> @@ -2816,12 +2831,17 @@
>  		(setq visible new-buffer))
>  	    (set-window-buffer-start-and-point
>  	     window new-buffer (nth 1 entry) (nth 2 entry))
> -	    (throw 'found t))))
> -
> -      ;; Show a buffer visible in another window.
> -      (when visible
> -	(setq new-buffer visible)
> -	(set-window-buffer-start-and-point window new-buffer)))
> +	    (throw 'found t)))))
> +
> +      ;; If we reach this, then either: (1) we have a candidate buffer that
> +      ;; was skipped because it was already visible on the frame, in which
> +      ;; case we switch to it now, or (2) no candidate was found, in which
> +      ;; case we switch to *scratch*.
> +      (if visible
> +          (setq new-buffer visible)
> +        (setq new-buffer (get-buffer-create "*scratch*")))
> +      (set-window-buffer-start-and-point window new-buffer))
> +
>
>      ;; Remove `new-buffer' from and restore WINDOW's next buffers.
>      (set-window-next-buffers window (delq new-buffer next-buffers))

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing                  Software Development        Training
http://www.boostpro.com             Clang/LLVM/EDG Compilers  C++  Boost

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[Dave Abrahams]

on Sun Jul 29 2012, Alp Aker <alptekin.aker-AT-gmail.com> wrote:

> It seems like something like the following would restore the old functionality:
>
> === modified file 'lisp/window.el'
> --- lisp/window.el	2012-07-18 10:02:54 +0000
> +++ lisp/window.el	2012-07-29 16:59:18 +0000
> @@ -2679,10 +2679,12 @@

<schnipp>

Alp, I tried applying your patch (**) and the most curious thing
happens: if I just run my test, it fails.  However, if the first thing I
do is `M-x load-library window RET', it passes.  This is true whether I
byte-compile window.el.gz or not.

(**) well; a slightly adjusted one for my version of Emacs
(https://gist.github.com/9504f1ae730f4db4c741) but I have confidence
because only line numbers were changed and it otherwise applied cleanly.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing                  Software Development        Training
http://www.boostpro.com             Clang/LLVM/EDG Compilers  C++  Boost

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[Alp Aker]

> Alp, I tried applying your patch (**) and the most curious thing
> happens: if I just run my test, it fails.  However, if the first thing I
> do is `M-x load-library window RET', it passes.  This is true whether I
> byte-compile window.el.gz or not.

You need to redump emacs, since your current binary already
incorporates the old windows.el.

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[Dave Abrahams]

on Sun Jul 29 2012, Alp Aker <alptekin.aker-AT-gmail.com> wrote:

>> Alp, I tried applying your patch (**) and the most curious thing
>> happens: if I just run my test, it fails.  However, if the first thing I
>> do is `M-x load-library window RET', it passes.  This is true whether I
>> byte-compile window.el.gz or not.
>
> You need to redump emacs, since your current binary already
> incorporates the old windows.el.

I had no idea it was built into the binary; thanks!

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing                  Software Development        Training
http://www.boostpro.com             Clang/LLVM/EDG Compilers  C++  Boost

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[martin rudalics]

 >> Why is showing the buffer visiting /tmp/xx bad in your scenario?  Can
 >> you give a scenario where the present behavior really hurts you?  In
 >> that case we can try to ignore such a buffer in `switch-to-prev-buffer'.
 >
 > Well, note that it's a regression:  replace-buffer-in-windows used to
 > call other-window (via window-loop).

This doesn't explain why showing the buffer visiting /tmp/xx is bad
here.  If you show a buffer A in a window, then show a buffer B in that
window and subsequently kill B, the most natural thing is to show A
again in that window.  In particular so, if B was used to display some
temporary information.

 > As for how it hurts not to check buffer predicates in
 > swtich-to-prev-buffer:  Buffer predicates are supposed to provide a
 > way of exercising some control over what buffers are automatically
 > selected for display.

In Dave's scenario neither of the file visiting buffers was shown
automatically but under the user's control.

 > But if kill-buffer doesn't respect buffer
 > predicates, then there's not much point to setting up a buffer
 > predicate at all:  why bother filtering buffers chosen for display, if
 > the filter isn't respected by one of the most common ways in which a
 > buffer is chosen for the user?

`other-buffer' is used in many places for different reasons, so it's by
no means obvious that it's about "filtering buffers chosen for display".
It has been used in `replace-buffer-in-windows' because there was no
better alternative.  And it might have been a good idea to not call this
parameter "buffer-predicate" in the first place but something more
indicative.  Also the manual text

 > `buffer-predicate'
 >      The buffer-predicate function for this frame.  The function
 >      `other-buffer' uses this predicate (from the selected frame) to
 >      decide which buffers it should consider, if the predicate is not
 >      `nil'.  It calls the predicate with one argument, a buffer, once
 >      for each buffer; if the predicate returns a non-`nil' value, it
 >      considers that buffer.

is misleading: Neither `other-buffer' nor `replace-buffer-in-windows'
necessarily care about which frame is selected when they get called.
When killing a buffer `replace-buffer-in-windows' obviously has to act
on all windows on all frames.

 > It seems like something like the following would restore the old functionality:

What's the reason for doing

 > +      ;; If we reach this, then either: (1) we have a
 > +      ;; candidate buffer that was skipped because it was already visible on
 > +      ;; the frame, in which case we switch to it now, or (2) no candidate
 > +      ;; was found, in which case we switch to *scratch*.
 > +      (if visible
 > +          (setq new-buffer visible)
 > +        (setq new-buffer (get-buffer-create "*scratch*")))
 > +      (set-window-buffer-start-and-point window new-buffer))
 > +
[...]
 > +      ;; If we reach this, then either: (1) we have a candidate buffer that
 > +      ;; was skipped because it was already visible on the frame, in which
 > +      ;; case we switch to it now, or (2) no candidate was found, in which
 > +      ;; case we switch to *scratch*.
 > +      (if visible
 > +          (setq new-buffer visible)
 > +        (setq new-buffer (get-buffer-create "*scratch*")))
 > +      (set-window-buffer-start-and-point window new-buffer))
 > +

IIUC these changes are not related to the issue we're discussing here.
Apart from that I see no problems applying your patch.

martin

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[Dave Abrahams]

on Mon Jul 30 2012, martin rudalics <rudalics-AT-gmx.at> wrote:

>>> Why is showing the buffer visiting /tmp/xx bad in your scenario?  Can
>>> you give a scenario where the present behavior really hurts you?  In
>>> that case we can try to ignore such a buffer in `switch-to-prev-buffer'.
>>
>> Well, note that it's a regression:  replace-buffer-in-windows used to
>> call other-window (via window-loop).
>
> This doesn't explain why showing the buffer visiting /tmp/xx is bad
> here.  

<sigh>

It's only bad because the documentation led me to believe that I could
control what would be shown after kill-buffer by using buffer-predicate.
This is a *manufactured* test case, because my real use case is a lot
more complicated to set up.  But I gave references to the actual case if
you really care about the motivation.

> If you show a buffer A in a window, then show a buffer B in that
> window and subsequently kill B, the most natural thing is to show A
> again in that window.  In particular so, if B was used to display some
> temporary information.

I don't think anyone disputes that the current behavior is a good
default.  But Emacs is all about customization, and overriding defaults
is an important part of that.

>> As for how it hurts not to check buffer predicates in
>> swtich-to-prev-buffer:  Buffer predicates are supposed to provide a
>> way of exercising some control over what buffers are automatically
>> selected for display.
>
> In Dave's scenario neither of the file visiting buffers was shown
> automatically but under the user's control.

True, but I'm not sure what your point is here.  I expected to be able
to exercise some control, but couldn't.

>> But if kill-buffer doesn't respect buffer
>> predicates, then there's not much point to setting up a buffer
>> predicate at all:  why bother filtering buffers chosen for display, if
>> the filter isn't respected by one of the most common ways in which a
>> buffer is chosen for the user?
>
> `other-buffer' is used in many places for different reasons, so it's by
> no means obvious that it's about "filtering buffers chosen for
> display".

The intended use of "buffer-predicate" has no obvious (to me) connection
with the places or reasons that other-buffer is used.

> It has been used in `replace-buffer-in-windows' because there was no
> better alternative.  And it might have been a good idea to not call
> this parameter "buffer-predicate" in the first place but something
> more indicative.  

Indicative of what?

> Also the manual text
>
>> `buffer-predicate'
>>      The buffer-predicate function for this frame.  The function
>>      `other-buffer' uses this predicate (from the selected frame) to
>>      decide which buffers it should consider, if the predicate is not
>>      `nil'.  It calls the predicate with one argument, a buffer, once
>>      for each buffer; if the predicate returns a non-`nil' value, it
>>      considers that buffer.
>
> is misleading: 

> Neither `other-buffer' nor `replace-buffer-in-windows' necessarily
> care about which frame is selected when they get called.  When killing
> a buffer `replace-buffer-in-windows' obviously has to act on all
> windows on all frames.

IMO this means the result of (selected-frame) will be temporarily set,
during the call to buffer-predicate, for each frame that needs to be
changed, and buffer-predicate will be called for each such frame.  Those
are the only semantics that make sense as long as buffer-predicate takes
one argument.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing                  Software Development        Training
http://www.boostpro.com             Clang/LLVM/EDG Compilers  C++  Boost

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[Alp Aker]

On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 5:13 AM, martin rudalics <rudalics@gmx.at> wrote:
>
> What's the reason for doing
>
>> +      ;; If we reach this, then either: (1) we have a
>> +      ;; candidate buffer that was skipped because it was already visible
>> on
>> +      ;; the frame, in which case we switch to it now, or (2) no
>> candidate
>> +      ;; was found, in which case we switch to *scratch*.
>> +      (if visible
>> +          (setq new-buffer visible)
>> +        (setq new-buffer (get-buffer-create "*scratch*")))
>> +      (set-window-buffer-start-and-point window new-buffer))
>
> IIUC these changes are not related to the issue we're discussing here.

Adding a buffer predicate test creates a new edge case, which the
above code is intended to handle.

With the existing code, it's guaranteed that either (1) we switch to a
new buffer while scanning the next buffers or the prev buffers, or (2)
we finish those scans with `visible' set to a buffer we can switch to.
 By adding a buffer predicate test to the loops, we break that
guarantee; it becomes possible to finish the scan without switching to
a new buffer and without setting `visible' to a candidate new buffer.
This would break the function unless we provide for that case.

The question then becomes, how to deal with such a case (when the scan
of prev and next buffers does not switch to a new buffer and does not
set `visible').  One obvious option is:  Do nothing, and adjust the
rest of the function to accomodate that possibility.  Another is to
choose *scratch* as the fallback value for `new-buffer', when no other
buffer passes all the tests.  The latter seemed to me to be
preferable, as it makes replace-buffer-in-windows and
replace_buffer_in_windows_safely have similar fallback behavior, and
agrees with the fallback behavior of other-buffer as well.

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[Alp Aker]

On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Alp Aker <alptekin.aker@gmail.com> wrote:

> With the existing code, it's guaranteed that either (1) we switch to a
> new buffer while scanning the next buffers or the prev buffers, or (2)
> we finish those scans with `visible' set to a buffer we can switch to.

Actually, it appears I'm wrong about that.  The existing code doesn't
make such a guarantee.  Still, it seems to me preferable to have
replace-buffer-in-windows and replace_buffer_in_windows_safely agree
on what to do as a last resort; that creates a more consistent user
experience.

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[martin rudalics]

 >> This doesn't explain why showing the buffer visiting /tmp/xx is bad
 >> here.
 >
 > <sigh>
 >
 > It's only bad because the documentation led me to believe that I could
 > control what would be shown after kill-buffer by using buffer-predicate.
 > This is a *manufactured* test case, because my real use case is a lot
 > more complicated to set up.  But I gave references to the actual case if
 > you really care about the motivation.

The reference you gave is entitled "Associate buffers with the last
frame in which they appeared" and I didn't see how the current behavior
which "associates windows with the last buffer they showed" would
contradict it.  Maybe there's some bug in `switch-to-prev-buffer' which
inhibits it to behave as you want without having to customize some other
option.  An example might have helped to sort out such a case.

 > The intended use of "buffer-predicate" has no obvious (to me) connection
 > with the places or reasons that other-buffer is used.

That's most unfortunate.  The documentation explicitly says that the
predicate affects `other-buffer'.  It nowhere says that it affects
`kill-buffer'.

 >> It has been used in `replace-buffer-in-windows' because there was no
 >> better alternative.  And it might have been a good idea to not call
 >> this parameter "buffer-predicate" in the first place but something
 >> more indicative.
 >
 > Indicative of what?

Of its intended use or impact.

 >> Also the manual text
 >>
 >>> `buffer-predicate'
 >>>      The buffer-predicate function for this frame.  The function
 >>>      `other-buffer' uses this predicate (from the selected frame) to
 >>>      decide which buffers it should consider, if the predicate is not
 >>>      `nil'.  It calls the predicate with one argument, a buffer, once
 >>>      for each buffer; if the predicate returns a non-`nil' value, it
 >>>      considers that buffer.
 >> is misleading:
 >
 >> Neither `other-buffer' nor `replace-buffer-in-windows' necessarily
 >> care about which frame is selected when they get called.  When killing
 >> a buffer `replace-buffer-in-windows' obviously has to act on all
 >> windows on all frames.
 >
 > IMO this means the result of (selected-frame) will be temporarily set,
 > during the call to buffer-predicate, for each frame that needs to be
 > changed, and buffer-predicate will be called for each such frame.  Those
 > are the only semantics that make sense as long as buffer-predicate takes
 > one argument.

`other-buffer' does not select a frame when calling buffer-predicate.

martin

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[martin rudalics]

 > Adding a buffer predicate test creates a new edge case, which the
 > above code is intended to handle.

It doesn't.  The edge case is already here.

 > With the existing code, it's guaranteed that either (1) we switch to a
 > new buffer while scanning the next buffers or the prev buffers, or (2)
 > we finish those scans with `visible' set to a buffer we can switch to.

No.  Try killing *scratch* with *scratch* the only buffer one can switch
to.

 >  By adding a buffer predicate test to the loops, we break that
 > guarantee; it becomes possible to finish the scan without switching to
 > a new buffer and without setting `visible' to a candidate new buffer.
 > This would break the function unless we provide for that case.

Let's hope not.

 > The question then becomes, how to deal with such a case (when the scan
 > of prev and next buffers does not switch to a new buffer and does not
 > set `visible').  One obvious option is:  Do nothing, and adjust the
 > rest of the function to accomodate that possibility.  Another is to
 > choose *scratch* as the fallback value for `new-buffer', when no other
 > buffer passes all the tests.  The latter seemed to me to be
 > preferable, as it makes replace-buffer-in-windows and
 > replace_buffer_in_windows_safely have similar fallback behavior, and
 > agrees with the fallback behavior of other-buffer as well.

With Emacs 23 I had a scenario (which is much too complicated to repeat
here) to crash Emacs by repeatedly trying to kill all buffers.  That's
why I wrote replace_buffer_in_windows_safely which relies on
other_buffer_safely to reliably recreate *scratch* if needed.  I don't
want to play with Elisp code called by C code recreating the buffer the
C code is just about to delete.  Let's keep other_buffer_safely the only
routine allowed to auto-recreate *scratch* and let's not call routines
like replace_buffer_in_windows_safely and other_buffer_safely from
Elisp.

If you really experience problems after applying the rest of the patch,
we'll find a solution ;-)

martin

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[martin rudalics]

 > Actually, it appears I'm wrong about that.  The existing code doesn't
 > make such a guarantee.  Still, it seems to me preferable to have
 > replace-buffer-in-windows and replace_buffer_in_windows_safely agree
 > on what to do as a last resort; that creates a more consistent user
 > experience.

When `replace-buffer-in-windows' fails to replace the buffer,
replace_buffer_in_windows_safely will kick in and automatically do what
you mean.  The user should not notice that.

martin

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[Dave Abrahams]

on Mon Jul 30 2012, martin rudalics <rudalics-AT-gmx.at> wrote:

>>> This doesn't explain why showing the buffer visiting /tmp/xx is bad
>>> here.
>>
>> <sigh>
>>
>> It's only bad because the documentation led me to believe that I could
>> control what would be shown after kill-buffer by using buffer-predicate.
>> This is a *manufactured* test case, because my real use case is a lot
>> more complicated to set up.  But I gave references to the actual case if
>> you really care about the motivation.
>
> The reference you gave is entitled "Associate buffers with the last
> frame in which they appeared" and I didn't see how the current behavior
> which "associates windows with the last buffer they showed" would
> contradict it.  

That's because the title is wrong; It should say "Associate buffers with
the last workgroup in which they appeared."  It is a patch to
workgroups.el, which you need to understand to understand the use-case.
When I kill a buffer in a particular workgroup, I want the replacement
buffer to be one that appeared recently in that workgroup, rather than
just something that's been seen recently in this frame.

> Maybe there's some bug in `switch-to-prev-buffer' which inhibits it to
> behave as you want without having to customize some other option.  An
> example might have helped to sort out such a case.

Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about here.

>> The intended use of "buffer-predicate" has no obvious (to me) connection
>> with the places or reasons that other-buffer is used.
>
> That's most unfortunate.  The documentation explicitly says that the
> predicate affects `other-buffer'.  It nowhere says that it affects
> `kill-buffer'.

Yes, I realized that only after I had implemented this.  But as
mentioned elsewhere:

1. there are no obvious uses for buffer-predicate if it doesn't also
   work for kill-buffer

2. IIUC it used to work for kill-buffer, probably because kill-buffer
   used to call other-buffer. 

>>> Also the manual text
>>>
>>>> `buffer-predicate'
>>>>      The buffer-predicate function for this frame.  The function
>>>>      `other-buffer' uses this predicate (from the selected frame) to
>>>>      decide which buffers it should consider, if the predicate is not
>>>>      `nil'.  It calls the predicate with one argument, a buffer, once
>>>>      for each buffer; if the predicate returns a non-`nil' value, it
>>>>      considers that buffer.
>>> is misleading:
>>
>>> Neither `other-buffer' nor `replace-buffer-in-windows' necessarily
>>> care about which frame is selected when they get called.  When killing
>>> a buffer `replace-buffer-in-windows' obviously has to act on all
>>> windows on all frames.
>>
>> IMO this means the result of (selected-frame) will be temporarily set,
>> during the call to buffer-predicate, for each frame that needs to be
>> changed, and buffer-predicate will be called for each such frame.  Those
>> are the only semantics that make sense as long as buffer-predicate takes
>> one argument.
>
> `other-buffer' does not select a frame when calling buffer-predicate.

Then I think that should be considered a (design) bug.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing                  Software Development        Training
http://www.boostpro.com             Clang/LLVM/EDG Compilers  C++  Boost

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[Alp Aker]

On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 1:42 PM, martin rudalics <rudalics@gmx.at> wrote:
> When `replace-buffer-in-windows' fails to replace the buffer,
> replace_buffer_in_windows_safely will kick in and automatically do what
> you mean.

Yes, I realized that about kill_buffer; my concern was whether other
users of replace-buffer-in-windows should need to provide fallback
behavior.  I'll defer to your judgment :)

So, would something like the following patch be ok (after adding
appropriate documentation changes)?  Note that with these changes,
there might still be some potentially odd behavior.  Here's a
contrived example.  From Emacs -Q, evaluating the following in
*scratch*:

(progn
  (set-frame-parameter nil 'buffer-predicate (lambda (x) nil))
  (switch-to-buffer (get-buffer-create "foo"))
  (switch-to-prev-buffer))

will leave buffer "foo" displayed in the selected window, but the
return value of of `switch-to-prev-buffer' will be #<buffer
*scratch*>, because `next-buffer' was assigned during the scan of the
previous buffers even though we did not switch to it.  Is such a
misleading return value ok?  (I realize this could be a considered a
variant of my earlier concern, which you argued was misplaced, but I
thought I should mention it nonetheless.)


=== modified file 'lisp/window.el'
--- lisp/window.el	2012-07-18 10:02:54 +0000
+++ lisp/window.el	2012-07-31 03:10:31 +0000
@@ -2679,6 +2679,7 @@
 	 (old-buffer (window-buffer window))
 	 ;; Save this since it's destroyed by `set-window-buffer'.
 	 (next-buffers (window-next-buffers window))
+         (pred (frame-parameter frame 'buffer-predicate))
 	 entry new-buffer killed-buffers visible)
     (when (window-dedicated-p window)
       (error "Window %s is dedicated to buffer %s" window old-buffer))
@@ -2692,6 +2693,7 @@
 		       (not (setq killed-buffers
 				  (cons new-buffer killed-buffers))))
 		   (not (eq new-buffer old-buffer))
+                   (or (null pred) (funcall pred new-buffer))
                    (or bury-or-kill
 		       (not (memq new-buffer next-buffers))))
 	  (if (and (not switch-to-visible-buffer)
@@ -2713,6 +2715,7 @@
 	(when (and (buffer-live-p buffer)
 		   (not (eq buffer old-buffer))
 		   (not (eq (aref (buffer-name buffer) 0) ?\s))
+                   (or (null pred) (funcall pred buffer))
 		   (or bury-or-kill (not (memq buffer next-buffers))))
 	  (if (get-buffer-window buffer frame)
 	      ;; Try to avoid showing a buffer visible in some other window.
@@ -2731,6 +2734,7 @@
 			 (not (setq killed-buffers
 				    (cons buffer killed-buffers))))
 		     (not (eq buffer old-buffer))
+                     (or (null pred) (funcall pred buffer))
 		     (setq entry (assq buffer (window-prev-buffers window))))
 	    (setq new-buffer buffer)
 	    (set-window-buffer-start-and-point
@@ -2773,6 +2777,7 @@
 	 (frame (window-frame window))
 	 (old-buffer (window-buffer window))
 	 (next-buffers (window-next-buffers window))
+         (pred (frame-parameter frame 'buffer-predicate))
 	 new-buffer entry killed-buffers visible)
     (when (window-dedicated-p window)
       (error "Window %s is dedicated to buffer %s" window old-buffer))
@@ -2784,6 +2789,7 @@
 		       (not (setq killed-buffers
 				  (cons buffer killed-buffers))))
 		   (not (eq buffer old-buffer))
+                   (or (null pred) (funcall pred buffer))
 		   (setq entry (assq buffer (window-prev-buffers window))))
 	  (setq new-buffer buffer)
 	  (set-window-buffer-start-and-point
@@ -2794,6 +2800,7 @@
       (dolist (buffer (buffer-list frame))
 	(when (and (buffer-live-p buffer) (not (eq buffer old-buffer))
 		   (not (eq (aref (buffer-name buffer) 0) ?\s))
+                   (or (null pred) (funcall pred buffer))
 		   (not (assq buffer (window-prev-buffers window))))
 	  (if (get-buffer-window buffer frame)
 	      ;; Try to avoid showing a buffer visible in some other window.
@@ -2808,6 +2815,7 @@
 		   (or (buffer-live-p new-buffer)
 		       (not (setq killed-buffers
 				  (cons new-buffer killed-buffers))))
+                   (or (null pred) (funcall pred new-buffer))
 		   (not (eq new-buffer old-buffer)))
 	  (if (and (not switch-to-visible-buffer)
 		   (get-buffer-window new-buffer frame))

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[martin rudalics]

 > When I kill a buffer in a particular workgroup, I want the replacement
 > buffer to be one that appeared recently in that workgroup, rather than
 > just something that's been seen recently in this frame.

So a workgroup specifies a subset of all live buffers and the
buffer-predicate you run on any of the buffers `switch-to-prev-buffer'
proposes, sanctions the argument buffer iff it's part of that workgroup.
Is that correct?

This gives you little space in choosing the most suitable buffer from
that workgroup.  Wouldn't it make more sense to provide a
`switch-to-prev-buffer-function' with the window as argument and, if
that function returns a live buffer which is not the same as the
window's current buffer, use that buffer to replace the current one?

Or maybe better: Give each window a `prev-buffer' window parameter such
that

(1) if it is a function, have `switch-to-prev-buffer' call that function
     and use its return value (in your case, the function would choose
     the buffer from the workgroup),

(2) if it is a regexp or a list of buffers or names, try to use that
     list for determining the buffer to switch to (in your case, that
     list would be the buffers of the workgroup sorted acording to some
     criteria).  If a buffer name in that list has no associated buffer,
     `switch-to-prev-buffer' could create one if needed.

 >> Maybe there's some bug in `switch-to-prev-buffer' which inhibits it to
 >> behave as you want without having to customize some other option.  An
 >> example might have helped to sort out such a case.
 >
 > Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about here.

I meant that `switch-to-prev-buffer' might have a bug independently from
whether it respects buffer-predicate or not and your example would have
helped us find such a bug.

 >>> The intended use of "buffer-predicate" has no obvious (to me) connection
 >>> with the places or reasons that other-buffer is used.
 >> That's most unfortunate.  The documentation explicitly says that the
 >> predicate affects `other-buffer'.  It nowhere says that it affects
 >> `kill-buffer'.
 >
 > Yes, I realized that only after I had implemented this.  But as
 > mentioned elsewhere:
 >
 > 1. there are no obvious uses for buffer-predicate if it doesn't also
 >    work for kill-buffer

If the buffer predicate affects _only_ what `kill-buffer', `bury-buffer'
or `replace-buffer-in-windows' do, then this should be reflected in the
name of the parameter and `other-buffer' probably should not even care
about this parameter.

 > 2. IIUC it used to work for kill-buffer, probably because kill-buffer
 >    used to call other-buffer.

I think so.  And it would have been easier to avoid the problem we
discuss here if the parameter had a better name and/or description.

martin

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[martin rudalics]

 > So, would something like the following patch be ok (after adding
 > appropriate documentation changes)?

Sure.  Can you write a ChangeLog entry, one additional sentence for the
doc-strings and a more useful documentation of buffer-predicate for the
Elisp manual?

 > Note that with these changes,
 > there might still be some potentially odd behavior.  Here's a
 > contrived example.  From Emacs -Q, evaluating the following in
 > *scratch*:
 >
 > (progn
 >   (set-frame-parameter nil 'buffer-predicate (lambda (x) nil))
 >   (switch-to-buffer (get-buffer-create "foo"))
 >   (switch-to-prev-buffer))
 >
 > will leave buffer "foo" displayed in the selected window, but the
 > return value of of `switch-to-prev-buffer' will be #<buffer
 > *scratch*>, because `next-buffer' was assigned during the scan of the
 > previous buffers even though we did not switch to it.  Is such a
 > misleading return value ok?

No.  It's an obvious bug not related to `buffer-predicate'.  It went
unnoticed so far because the return value of `switch-to-prev-buffer' is
neither documented nor used anywhere.  But in the case you describe
`switch-to-prev-buffer' should return nil just as in all other cases
resulting from

       (dolist (entry (window-prev-buffers window))
	(when (and (setq new-buffer (car entry))

when new-buffer is rejected.  I hope I fixed that now.  Please have a
look.

Thanks, martin

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[Dave Abrahams]

on Tue Jul 31 2012, martin rudalics <rudalics-AT-gmx.at> wrote:

>> When I kill a buffer in a particular workgroup, I want the replacement
>> buffer to be one that appeared recently in that workgroup, rather than
>> just something that's been seen recently in this frame.
>
> So a workgroup specifies a subset of all live buffers and the
> buffer-predicate you run on any of the buffers `switch-to-prev-buffer'
> proposes, sanctions the argument buffer iff it's part of that workgroup.
> Is that correct?

Almost.  When a buffer is displayed, it is associated with the current
workgroup via a buffer-local variable.  The buffer-predicate returns
true for any buffer associated with the current workgroup and returns
false for any others.

> This gives you little space in choosing the most suitable buffer from
> that workgroup.  

True.  I figure Emacs already has a heuristic for "most suitable," and
I just want it to apply that to the set of buffers whose last appearance
was in the current workgroup.

> Wouldn't it make more sense to provide a
> `switch-to-prev-buffer-function' with the window as argument and, if
> that function returns a live buffer which is not the same as the
> window's current buffer, use that buffer to replace the current one?
>
> Or maybe better: Give each window a `prev-buffer' window parameter such
> that
>
> (1) if it is a function, have `switch-to-prev-buffer' call that function
>     and use its return value (in your case, the function would choose
>     the buffer from the workgroup),
>
> (2) if it is a regexp or a list of buffers or names, try to use that
>     list for determining the buffer to switch to (in your case, that
>     list would be the buffers of the workgroup sorted acording to some
>     criteria).  If a buffer name in that list has no associated buffer,
>     `switch-to-prev-buffer' could create one if needed.

Well, yeah, all these things make sense if you're going to go so far as
to redesign or extend Emacs itself.  I was looking for a less-intrusive
solution, and to me, it seemed that the buffer predicate was simply not
working as it was supposed to.

>> Yes, I realized that only after I had implemented this.  But as
>> mentioned elsewhere:
>>
>> 1. there are no obvious uses for buffer-predicate if it doesn't also
>>    work for kill-buffer
>
> If the buffer predicate affects _only_ what `kill-buffer', `bury-buffer'
> or `replace-buffer-in-windows' do, then this should be reflected in the
> name of the parameter 

OK

> and `other-buffer' probably should not even care about this parameter.

Why not?

>> 2. IIUC it used to work for kill-buffer, probably because kill-buffer
>>    used to call other-buffer.
>
> I think so.  And it would have been easier to avoid the problem we
> discuss here if the parameter had a better name and/or description.

Probably.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing                  Software Development        Training
http://www.boostpro.com             Clang/LLVM/EDG Compilers  C++  Boost

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[martin rudalics]

 >> and `other-buffer' probably should not even care about this parameter.
 >
 > Why not?

Do you need it apart from `kill-buffer', `bury-buffer' and
`replace-buffer-in-windows'?

martin

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[Dave Abrahams]

on Tue Aug 14 2012, martin rudalics <rudalics-AT-gmx.at> wrote:

>>> and `other-buffer' probably should not even care about this parameter.
>>
>> Why not?
>
> Do you need it apart from `kill-buffer', `bury-buffer' and
> `replace-buffer-in-windows'?

I don't know.  I guess in part that depends on which other parts of
emacs call those functions, and whether that set is guaranteed to be
stable over time.  I don't think it's currently documented or stable,
which is why this probably seemed to the person who implemented the
other-buffer functionality to "work" in some useful way.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing                  Software Development        Training
http://www.boostpro.com             Clang/LLVM/EDG Compilers  C++  Boost

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[martin rudalics]

> So, would something like the following patch be ok (after adding
> appropriate documentation changes)?

I applied your patch now (with some minor modifications due to recent
changes in the trunk).  Please have a look.

martin

bug#12081: 24.1; buffer-predicate often not called

[martin rudalics]

Alp's patch is in trunk with revision 109831.  Bug closed.

Thanks, martin