From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#41403: A more user-friendly version of GNU Emacs Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 20:47:56 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87pmt0wkur.fsf@igel.home> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.21\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39835"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Michael Heerdegen , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Andrew Goh , Stefan Kangas , 41403@debbugs.gnu.org To: Andreas Schwab Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 22 21:04:41 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mT7Xt-000A8y-IH for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 21:04:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49308 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mT7Xr-00080D-JI for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 15:04:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50834) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mT7Ik-0007c7-8q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 14:49:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:40143) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mT7Ij-0005Bv-Vo for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 14:49:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mT7Ij-00041m-UW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 14:49:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 18:49:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41403 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 41403-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41403.163233648715409 (code B ref 41403); Wed, 22 Sep 2021 18:49:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 41403) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Sep 2021 18:48:07 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51689 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mT7Hq-00040S-W2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 14:48:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mail238c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.248]:33728 helo=mail56c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mT7Hl-0003zw-Kq for 41403@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 14:48:05 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1632336479; bh=7NPF/ZktFtIOlUGsINSXWdnhEMEVD5owaQKYZnV2JTc=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=nAgwYDqNXfmy0pCnDz84n0/DlE8Wm1Q42yoYN0PXVLgEANmO+Vy3Dk6O9wFes4OcD W5A9ngB1PGoXLeRb6B0Yew0KTM0Q0twOTBBsQ6fvG6R7KfUKG3YPvYRWAPBq0iV/0H HoUM8cnz6pCyn634PD8tRz4zUeds37L+K+QA6SRM= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Original-Received: from stanniol.lan (c-b952e353.032-75-73746f71.bbcust.telenor.se [83.227.82.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail56c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 18MIluCa012881; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 18:47:58 +0000 In-Reply-To: <87pmt0wkur.fsf@igel.home> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.21) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A742F18.614B7A5F.0018, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.4 cv=HZd38gI8 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=614b7a5f a=von4qPfY+hyqc0zmWf0tYQ==:117 a=von4qPfY+hyqc0zmWf0tYQ==:17 a=h6sSDvFV864kqH3m:21 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=M51BFTxLslgA:10 a=KvEqwxm_tu6kCDSuSR4A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=MsGGBZUjQz0tJghedtA6:22 X-Origin-Country: SE X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:215116 Archived-At: 22 sep. 2021 kl. 20.01 skrev Andreas Schwab : > That's exctly the problem. What Apple calls the Option key, is the = Alt > key on ordinary keyboards. But they never switched the keys that you claimed they did. Apple have their own keyboard design tradition and while they later = reconciled their layout with that from IBM, they didn't somehow take = IBM's keyboard and make arbitrary changes for nefarious reasons. There isn't necessarily a bijection between Mac and PC keys. Option = mostly corresponds to today's AltGr (for input of more characters) but = is also used to modify function keys and mouse clicks. Command was = originally designed as a more principled variant of the conventional = Control key (ie, for function keystrokes), but better located and = without the historical TTY control code baggage. Later on Control was = added to Mac keyboards as well for use in terminal emulators and the = like, and is today just another modifier. =46rom your point of view you may wish that company this-and-that would = have made different decisions and so do I (most definitely), but history = is what it is.