From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#8492: 23.3; Time to use a different binding for completion? Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 21:54:17 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87zknuhxl4.fsf@sc3d.org> <773F1105A680404C90121E510917AFAF@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1303416462 7013 80.91.229.12 (21 Apr 2011 20:07:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 20:07:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 8492@debbugs.gnu.org To: Reuben Thomas Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 21 22:07:38 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QD0A4-0004J3-Mk for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 22:07:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37572 helo=lists2.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QD0A4-0001b6-4Z for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=lUundHJsqVs+iHGfbH6jbstX77GnPNslqzDBAZDOizBiAAspuBYvhTvOS8y7mUPGqG +vM1Erv2cMPy864PHQ9fhCw09tzLYexEZbyMrkpefao8kYCq/USWegvDEWg+yUnp9+6v cezqV4kabrMopQB0qG+kk3KjPhqwYtxUjQH7U= Original-Received: by 10.213.0.207 with SMTP id 15mr852818ebc.20.1303415677533; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 12:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.213.23.8 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 12:54:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:55:02 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:45930 Archived-At: On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Reuben Thomas wrote: > On 21 April 2011 19:49, Lennart Borgman wrote= : >> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Drew Adams wrot= e: >>>> >> > Currently, the "usable default" is ESC TAB. >>>> >> >>>> >> Which does not work at all if you use Viper. >>>> > >>>> > We should not change Emacs default bindings based on the >>>> > bindings of Viper - or of any other emulator - or of any >>>> > other mode etc. >>>> >>>> Thanks for your view, Drew, but I found this statement of you just >>>> unusable and unnecessary here. >>> >>> You claim that a given default key "does not work at all" if you put yo= urself in >>> a special emulation mode. =C2=A0So what? =C2=A0If I play chess in check= ers mode should I >>> expect the default, chess binding of each piece to still "work" in chec= kers? >> >> This is just plain stupid. Viper is not just any emulation mode. It >> happen to be key bindings a lot of potential and current Emacs users >> knows. > > I don't understand why there's even an argument here. Viper is a mode > with a radically different approach to keybinding, so what does it > have to do with the default keybindings? It's clearly unreasonable to > expect default single-chord keybindings to take it into account. The same has been said about CUA-bindings. Both cua-mode and viper are parts of Emacs and parts that many users depends on. There are other emulations that are not that important. In fact I do not know of any people still using the other emulations. But the fact is that many people using Emacs depends on cua-mode and viper. Not taking facts into account is not a good real world reasoning.